13 replies to this topic

[Stacia]

Hi everyone -

I'm new to this group and new to AI Dogs. I've been soaking up so much information from Kim's website and reading posts here since I decided to adopt an American Indian dog, and it looks like I'll be going down to Kim's place next month for a puppy I live here in Gig Harbor, WA with Nanook, my 13 year old malamute hybrid (I know, I know...), and a couple of Formosan Mountain dogs rescued from the streets of Taiwan. Nanook and her brother Bear (passed on 3 months ago) were a challenge for me...they required extensive training and constant supervision when out of the house, but were the most loyal, obedient, bonded dogs I have ever lived with. After reading some of the AI dog stories I know some of you will understand the relationship I have with Nanook. She isn't obedient from training as much as she's loyal to me because I'm her pack leader. She's does what I want because she's bonded to me, trusts me, and respects me. I don't have to give her the correct cues to communicate with her...she watches me like a hawk and knows from the slightest movements what I want. She's not cuddly, but she needs to be within eyesight of me. When she's out playing in the yard she'll come back to the glass door often, looking to make sure I'm here. Her ears are up and eyes are searching and once she see me the ears are back, the eyes are smiling, and she turns her attention back to the yard to protect us (something she takes seriously) from squirrels . We've spent 13 years running together, hiking and camping, and she's been amazing as we've transitioned from one place to the next, in all the bizarre changes my life has taken, she's adjusted with stride because the only two things that could ever really shake her would be losing me or Bear. And Bear's death was hard on both of us, and it started me thinking about life without either of them, which eventually led me to the AI dogs. Most of my dogs since childhood have been rescues and I've never bought from a breeder. I began looking online at malamute rescues, shepherd rescues, and hybrids (I know, I know...), and came across Song Dogs. I read about them, about Kim, and was very intrigued... a dog that has enough of the wild instinct left, but without the dangerous aggression. I saw the photos, gorgeous, and read the history and was moved by what Kim was trying to do and so impassioned at the thought of a "first dog" that I called Kim. And here we are...

Nice to meet you,

Stacia

[Allison]

Stacia, on Jul 11 2010, 03:19 PM, said:

Nice to meet you,

Stacia

And you. Sounds like you've had a few dogs. How many?

I'll upgrade your account.

Hey, is that profile picture Bear or Nanook?

Gig Harbor is not far. Looks like we'll be having a good group, here in the Puget Sound area.

[Chickasaw 5-OH]

Hi Stacia. My husband (Five-Oh) and I are getting our first AI soon also. You will like this forum I think. Everyone I have corresponded with has been so helpful and nice. There is a TON of information here in the "pages" (so to speak) of these forums. So take some time and look around. I started a forum on dog food that is extremely educational. It is under Indian Dogs.

Hey, my sister has a malamute hybrid also. She rescued him from being put down I believe. He was just a puppy. His name is Sequoia and he is the sweetest guy. He gets bossed around by a dog much smaller than him. It's funny. The only problem she has ever had with him was in his puppy months. He used to jump her 6 ft fences and run all over the neighborhood. He always came back though and he NEVER hurt anyone. They lost him in the woods for a couple days too, but he was found by some hiker and returned. I know everyone here says not to get wolf hybrids, but he is an awesome dog. It's all about personality. Some humans are not so great either, but some are wonderful. It's all relative I think.

Anyway, welcome to the group! Post pics when you get them.

[Allison]

It is one of Kim's causes that he feels very strongly about...wolf hybrids. It's not the dog/wolf, as you sort of pointed out, but the people who really are not equipped to handle them.

He objects to the obscene numbers of hybrids being put down each year, or killed by various methods, and not being able to live a full life. He also objects to the many others that are released into the wild when their owners can no longer handle them, to wreak havoc on the wild wolf populations.

There is now DNA evidence that puts the wolf/dog at the heart of many of the problems between humans and what they assume are wild wolves. Very sadly, the wild wolves take the punishment.

Wolves are shy creatures, wolf/dogs are much less so.

As Kim says, "They are neither dogs nor wolves." And therein lies the problem.

Again, it's people that are to blame.

[Stacia]

Allison, on Jul 11 2010, 05:42 PM, said:

And you. Sounds like you've had a few dogs. How many?

I'll upgrade your account.

Hey, is that profile picture Bear or Nanook?

Gig Harbor is not far. Looks like we'll be having a good group, here in the Puget Sound area.

The profile picture is Mika, my Formosan Mountain Dog. She's a sweetheart but has lots of fear issues. She was a "rubber band" dog....it's what they call these dogs in Taiwan that get rubber banded. She had a rubber band around her head that had to be surgically removed when she was caught and she suffers neurological damage from it. She also had blunt trauma to her leg, looks like it was broke and fused wrong, so she has some trouble with stairs. She runs around the yard real well though, loves chasing squirrels, and loves me and her pack, but she's terrified when taken away from the house. My mom has Abby, a Formosan who was caught as a puppy. Abby's a cartoon! Then there's Nanook. I'll post some pictures. I think I remember you not liking Facebook, but if you want to check out my photos there are many pictures of the dogs, including Bear.

http://www.facebook....hp?id=649923867

Do people around the Puget Sound area do meet ups with their dogs or get together for hiking, etc...?

[Allison]

A rubber band dog!!! I'm horrified. People, people, people,...

Some of us have gotten together, but in this last two years our numbers have really grown, and we need to organize some fun.

[Stacia]

Chickasaw 5-OH, on Jul 11 2010, 11:04 PM, said:

Hi Stacia. My husband (Five-Oh) and I are getting our first AI soon also. You will like this forum I think. Everyone I have corresponded with has been so helpful and nice. There is a TON of information here in the "pages" (so to speak) of these forums. So take some time and look around. I started a forum on dog food that is extremely educational. It is under Indian Dogs.

Hey, my sister has a malamute hybrid also. She rescued him from being put down I believe. He was just a puppy. His name is Sequoia and he is the sweetest guy. He gets bossed around by a dog much smaller than him. It's funny. The only problem she has ever had with him was in his puppy months. He used to jump her 6 ft fences and run all over the neighborhood. He always came back though and he NEVER hurt anyone. They lost him in the woods for a couple days too, but he was found by some hiker and returned. I know everyone here says not to get wolf hybrids, but he is an awesome dog. It's all about personality. Some humans are not so great either, but some are wonderful. It's all relative I think.

Anyway, welcome to the group! Post pics when you get them.

Hi there and thanks for the welcome

You're right about this site...it's amazing. I come everyday to read peoples stories and find out more about this breed and their history. Between this forum and Song Dog's site I'm learning a lot!

I love the hybrids too and would never buy one from a breeder. They don't care about what happens to the dogs, they sell them to anyone, and people get hurt and the dogs get euthanized or spend their lives in shelters. But when you know what you're getting into and have the time and place for a hybrid, rescuing them is very rewarding. I'm glad your sister and Sequoia found each other

I will post some photos soon and I posted a link to my facebook page where there are lots of photos if you want to take a look.

Stacia

[Allison]

Stacia, on Jul 12 2010, 08:55 AM, said:

I'm glad your sister and Sequoia found each other

Well said.

[Chickasaw 5-OH]

It was brought to my attention, via phone call, that there was some confusion about how I feel about wolf/dog hybrids. I would like to clarify what I was saying.

Sequoia is a good dog-fact. He has been great with my sister's kids and he does not have a mean bone in his body-fact. It was represented to me by my sister that he is a timber wolf/ Alaskan Malamute mix which may or may not be fact. It was Sequoia's vet who told my sister what he was. While I am very glad my sister saved his life, I would like to make it clear that I am in NO WAY suggesting anyone should go out and get themselves a wolf and make it a pet. I am only speaking for Sequoia himself, whatever he may be. I am not representing the entire population of wolf/dog hybrids. Wolves are wild animals and wild animals deserve to run free in nature. There are many dangers involved with wolf/dogs and you never know what you are getting into. My sister lucked out basically if that is in fact what he is. So while I think Sequoia is awesome, I do not agree with breeding dogs with wolves to make hybrid pets.

I am sorry for any confusion this may have caused. Here is a pic of Sequoia just for entertainment sake. You can make up your own mind about his blood.

[Chickasaw 5-OH]

Here is another one of Sequoia with my nieces. Whatever he is, he is beautiful. Still not supporting dog/wolf hybrids. Just supporting Sequoia.

[Karen]

You are right that he is beautiful, really. Wolf-y looking, but that doesn't mean a lot coming from me.

[Starghoti]

Love the look on his face with the girls. And he is a handsome boy.

[Allison]

I wish all such dogs were as happy as Sequoia. So sad that this is not the case.

[Allison]

More from Kim:

Kim says, that “there are always exceptions”. Kim has met some very nice wolf dogs in his past, when he worked with wolf dog breeders in the 60’s breeding for movie wolf look-a-likes. Another problem is lots of people are told they have a wolf dog & it is a Malamute or husky cross. Lots of people sell GSD X husky crosses as wolf dogs & when people raise them … passing them off or showing them off as part wolf, it ends up giving others the wrong impression of what a true wolf dog is or can be, most are not “trainable” like a dog, but you have to just pretty much “let them be”.



Kim says that when he is shown pictures or see’s the actual dog - these “nice” so called wolf dogs, 90% of the time they are not wolf dogs at all. He is the expert along with experts that he knows & I would suggest if there is any dought (as he has even given his expert testimony in court cases) to send him pictures & he can positively identify your canine as a wolf hybrid or dog. There are lots of ways other than personality to know for sure with an expert in wolf dogs.



But as he says there are exceptions where a wolf dog gets all the dog genes & no wolf … but there are also examples of 1/10 wolf genes in a dog that was a registered AKC Malamute … when people couldn’t understand the wild personality researched the bloodlines & 10 generations back was wolf … might as well be a wolf (as far as personality) even with only 1/10 wolf within it … so this is one of those things that is a roll of the dice & we have documented proof of over 60 “so called” NAID’s that have had to be put down, because of false marketing. Including the one bred by Karen Markel sold as a NAID, that almost killed the new born child in KY. This is an example of a combination of illegal sales of false Indian dogs plus very bad breeding; just for a certain look. With over 6 milloin wolf dogs over flowing in rescues around the country …. With waiting lists over 5 years. Something is wrong with this picture as most of these in rescues were lucky enough not to have been put down, (like the millions that have) because they weren’t caught killing a person or pet, just almost killed it.



There are some ethical wolf dog breeders (if there is such a thing) that breed wolf dogs that complain that these fake NAID’s breeders are not breeding correctly & giving even ethical wolf dog breeders a bad name.



Kim asks that you send him pictures of your wolf dogs so he can help estimate what % your friends or your wolf dog is, just for fun & research purposes. He belongs to a group of wolf dog experts that have done lots of research & this always helps there research & properly educating the public on wolf dogs. As he says “not that this pertains to any one here … but 90% of AI dog owners or any one for that matter, that have said they have or had a wolf dog … just thought it was or were told it was. Many people even think they had or have a Dingo … NO Dingo’s are allowed out of Australia … only zoo’s are allowed to have Dingo’s & they have laws they can not sell them to the public … lots of myths & urban legends going around that need to be understood <g> when it all comes down to it, there is nothing good about breeding wolves with dogs … & Kim feels it’s important not to make light of this huge problem, nothing wrong with rescuing one, but don’t buy from a breeder or encourage the myth that they make great family pets ~ [/quote]