14 replies to this topic

[s.witte]

Hi AI dog owners,

I am new to this forum and the AI dog. I currently own 3 Mudi dogs, and I understand the AI breed may be similar to the AI dog in character. I am not ready to add another dog to my household, but I am ready to research alternate breeds, and obviously I am attracted to dogs that are not over bred, and that are smart and healthy. These are characteristics that led me to getting my first Mudi dog over 6 years ago. I also like the raw nature of the Mudi, a feral awareness that many dog breeds today have lost. I am attracted to dogs that still possess such qualities, but dogs that also are human centered, and able to have a working connection with their owners. I am NOT one who agrees with owning wolves or wolf hybrids, (just to clarify) I believe wild animals should be left in the wild, and not forced to live as domesticated animals, nor "caged" animals....but I digress....

I would like to get opinions from owners of the AI dogs, pertaining to certain characteristics of this breed. Please forgive me if this info is posted somewhere that I may have missed. I also wonder if the caretakers of these dogs do health testings on breeding stock.

1. Is the AI dog a terribly vocal breed?
2. Are hips, elbows or other orthopedic concerns tested on breeding animals? (As typical of other breeds used for breeding, using the OFA primarily for certifying healthy dogs)
3. Is the AI breed a good prospect for a sport such as Agility?
4. Is the AI breed a dog that has an "on" "off" switch?
5. Can the AI dog be left alone for hours while the owner works?

The Mudi is very focused on pleasing the owner, (at least the dogs I know of, there are always exceptions) and I wonder if the AI dog has a similar level of focus when working for the owner (and I do not mean focused as far as looking "at" the owner all the time, but rather focused on the job at hand, no matter what it is, in relation to/with the owner)

Thank you for any insight on these few questions that anyone here can share, I appreciate hearing more about the AI dog, good and bad, in relation to owning and living with them.

As I said previously, I am not ready to add another dog to my home just yet, but maybe in a few years.

Sincerely,
Sue Witte

[s.witte]

Sorry, should read:

I currently own 3 Mudi dogs, and I understand the AI breed may be similar to the Mudi in character.

[judyk]

s.witte, on May 16 2010, 03:13 PM, said:

Sorry, should read:

I currently own 3 Mudi dogs, and I understand the AI breed may be similar to the Mudi in character.

You should contact Kim LaFlamme. He is the owner/breeder of these amazing mutts! He is the one most qualified to answer all of your questions and add much insight for you.

JudyK in Michigan

[Allison]

Ni, and welcome.

It sounds to me that you might love these dogs, but I am not sure what you mean by an on and off switch?

Yes, call and speak to Kim, or email him if you like:

Kim LaFlamme and Song Dog Kennels

[Karen]

Real quick - when you say "breeding stock", what do you mean? Because there is only one breeder that I know of, and when you get a dog you are not permitted to breed it.

[Karen]

Quote

1. Is the AI dog a terribly vocal breed?

Yes, although I've been able to train mine to hush on command. Their voices can be formidable, though.

Quote

3. Is the AI breed a good prospect for a sport such as Agility?

There are AIDs that have done well with agility, and others that have looked at the entire thing as a pointless exercise. That's the thing about them - they actually have minds to make up.

Quote

4. Is the AI breed a dog that has an "on" "off" switch?

Do you mean, are they like Greyhounds? No.

Quote

5. Can the AI dog be left alone for hours while the owner works?

Yes, if you have trained her properly.

Quote

The Mudi is very focused on pleasing the owner, (at least the dogs I know of, there are always exceptions) and I wonder if the AI dog has a similar level of focus when working for the owner (and I do not mean focused as far as looking "at" the owner all the time, but rather focused on the job at hand, no matter what it is, in relation to/with the owner)

I've had that kind of dog you are talking about, I have one now, and I have to say that my AID is not like that. She does not live to please me.

Karen

[s.witte]

Thank you All,

A few additional thoughts:

I would like to try and explain what an “on” “off” switch in regards to a dog means to me. Simply it means the dog can settle when appropriate. If I have been on a long walk with the dog, or in a training session, I can put the dog away, (whether that be a crate or simply inside the house) and the dog knows it is time to relax, and well...“settle”. I have heard of breeds that cannot settle, will pace back and forth, or in circles, or in general be very hyperactive. I have never had a dog like this, but I am sure I would not like one that is this way. This is not to say the “settled” dog is not alert, and ready at the drop of a hat to “work” again. This is how the Mudi is, they can and will settle, but the second they sense a clue that we are about to have “fun” (whatever that may be) they are ready.

Also, it really was not fair of me to ask if this is a good breed for agility. It is so true what Karen said about this. I guess what I want to know is do they possess the build and athleticism to do the sport, as well as being able to focus? It certainly looks like they would from the pictures I have seen (structurally). I know not all dogs, no matter what breed, will enjoy the sport. Out of my three Mudis, they all are physically able, but clearly they do not all enjoy it the same. It was my intention to focus on herding with my youngest Mudi, and started Agility classes with him simply to give him a well-rounded education. But it was clear the first day that he LOVED the sport. I have never seen anything like it; so needless to say, this is what we focus on most. I like to expose my dogs to things and let them show me what turns them on!! My other Mudi just did not see the point in the sport, thus we decided to focus on something different with her.

Is it fair to say this breed is very independent? Is this what you mean Karen when you say your dog does not live to please you? Is this behavior of the AI dog likening of the northern breeds? For example Huskies can be very independent, and not a breed that is always easy to train because of this. Does this seem to mirror the AI dogs?

Yes, I have contacted Kim; as a matter of fact it was his reply that directed me to this forum.

My question on health testing breeding stock was directed to all of you as owners, not just the breeder, (whom I gather is only Kim) so I welcome a response from anyone. I was of the thinking that even though all owners have fixed animals, they would know of the lineage and whether the sire or dam of their dogs was health tested. Or maybe Kim feels it is not necessary to do such health tests on this breed, I am simply wondering what health problems the AI dog might have.

As far as the AI breed being vocal...could this desire to bark be considered a nuisance, or in any way a deterrent in training?

Regards,
Sue

=====================

Karen, on May 16 2010, 06:43 PM, said:

Yes, although I've been able to train mine to hush on command. Their voices can be formidable, though.

There are AIDs that have done well with agility, and others that have looked at the entire thing as a pointless exercise. That's the thing about them - they actually have minds to make up.

Do you mean, are they like Greyhounds? No.

Yes, if you have trained her properly.


I've had that kind of dog you are talking about, I have one now, and I have to say that my AID is not like that. She does not live to please me.

Karen

[Karen]

s.witte, on May 16 2010, 05:04 PM, said:

Simply it means the dog can settle when appropriate. If I have been on a long walk with the dog, or in a training session, I can put the dog away, (whether that be a crate or simply inside the house) and the dog knows it is time to relax, and well...“settle”.

Also, it really was not fair of me to ask if this is a good breed for agility. It is so true what Karen said about this. I guess what I want to know is do they possess the build and athleticism to do the sport, as well as being able to focus?

Is it fair to say this breed is very independent? Is this what you mean Karen when you say your dog does not live to please you? Is this behavior of the AI dog likening of the northern breeds? For example Huskies can be very independent, and not a breed that is always easy to train because of this. Does this seem to mirror the AI dogs?

Yes, I have contacted Kim; as a matter of fact it was his reply that directed me to this forum.

My question on health testing breeding stock was directed to all of you as owners, not just the breeder, (whom I gather is only Kim) so I welcome a response from anyone.

As far as the AI breed being vocal...could this desire to bark be considered a nuisance, or in any way a deterrent in training?

Whew, so many questions. I was hoping someone would jump in.

I haven't heard anyone complain that their dog is hyper or paces constantly or can't settle. Now that mine is two, she is very laid-back when things are calm, and is always eager to go when it is time to play or walk.

Regarding agility, physically they are superior athletes and can focus like lasers when they want to. I did agility with mine when she was 6 months old because I needed to do some kind of class with her, and regular obedience was just not going to cut it. (She already knew all of the commands I needed her to know.) She had solidly bonded with our older dog but I was having trouble getting her to bond with me, so we did agility because I knew she wouldn't be bored. It was a total hoot - she was so lively and fast and entertaining (she is a clown) that the instructor really wanted her to move on to the next class, but I'd gotten what I wanted out of it. She figured out the obstacles almost instantly, but as I said, couldn't see the point in some. Why run through the tunnel when the treat was right there? It certainly worked as a bonding exercise. She made me laugh almost the whole time, and away from the other dog she looked in my eyes a ton.

Yes, she is very independent. Some other owners call their dogs velcro dogs because they stick to their sides so much, but I have one of the ones that don't. If you want independent, tell Kim. (I didn't request it, I just got it.) I don't know from northern breeds.

There is a lot written on the Song Dog site and here about the health of the breed. You should look around for the information, which is much better than people trying to reproduce it for you

I didn't see the barking as a training problem (it was a challenge to address), but it can be very annoying. My dog is pretty good now, but she does have a piercing bark. She knows I don't want her to bark and sort of huffs unless she can't help it.

karen

Edited by Karen, 17 May 2010 - 10:18 PM.

[miz molly]

Karen your answers are right on. Good going. superb job.
Sue,
Settling - I have not had a problem with Tolinka not settling. He knows that when we are done with play time, he comes in and goes straight to his pillow next to my desk (that's because it is closest to me). He has always done this so it seems it was in his nature.

Barking - I call Tolinka my gentle door bell. He lets me know when someone is at the door, but does not bark the warning barks, it's more like "Hey there's a friend out there" bark. The rest of the time he is pretty quiet, unless he is talking to me. So that's not been a problem. If he wanders the property and I can't find him, I call to him and he barks back to let me know where he is. Their bark can range from ear splitting to a gentle woof. I can hear him acres away when he wants me to. He will bark at the ducks on the river but it does not go on for ever and thankfully does not go after them. I hope my educating him to "WATCH" will continue to work. it's more like he is telling me that they have arrived.

Independent - I would say that when Tolinka shows his independence he is also doing an alpha thing with me. About every 3 months this pops up. The rest of the time he is not the "velcro" dog that Karen describes, but he is either at my side or within ear shot. My property is not fenced and there is a ton of "stuff" that could distract him, but so far, knock on wood, he hasn't left the property, not even after a deer. I still praise him when he doesn't cross the line. He will be one in the first of June. Any way, today he seems to be interested in chasing moths. His new discovery... go figure. :Bwahahaha:

Focus - Still being a pup, his focus is intense, but sometimes wavers when a hawk flies over, or a gopher shows his head, he will stop in his tracks and watch, sometimes will go after a squirrel, but always tries to comes back into focus. However sometimes he totally looses the ball during these moments and can't find it at all. But alas, it always pops up again later.

Intelligent - yes. Thinking - yes. Creative - yes. He designs his own games.

Respectful to my other dogs and cats - yes.

Takes to education - yes. Takes to training - yes but likes the education style of learning better. He likes the creative gentle side to it all.

Breeding - "I know nothing bout berthing no babies!" That's Kim's job.

Agility - look through the forum and find "Bella" That will answer that question for sure. Enjoy the videos. They are fantastic!

enjoy your day.

[Allison]

I'll jump in on the health issues: When one of our dogs has a health issue, it's news! Kim's oldest is 18 and she still jumps to the top of the teepee platform and rules the roost.

There have been only a few instances of hip problems, in all the years Kim has been breeding-well below the mathematical statistics. He is very meticulous about his breeding. One of the reasons for the forum, is to keep in touch and for him to get feedback on any possible problems.

He also gives a health guarantee, and will replace your pup if there is some common problem. I don't know any other breeders who do that. I have also known him to give pups to people who lost theirs in car accidents. He is a very kind man, and very concerned about the health of these dogs.

By the way, when I am gone my dog just sleeps. He has taught our new pup to do the same. No destruction or problems have happened (accept for their toys), nor have the neighbors made any complaints.

[linda]

quick answers 1: they can be Mine tell me when peopkle are around the younger Malachi he has to have a vocal input on everything like he wine s whenhe dont like something tells me when he want to go out and also alerts me to strangers he doe sone thing Snake dont do and that is he does not like anyone around the car NO ONE! he alerts to that .

3: yes they are good with anyhting atheletic if trained right they love to hike and keep busy run run run are my boys favorite

4: I have to say mine know to settle when they come in now understand Mal is 6 mth s old so sometimes it does not last long haha

5: my dog are left alone alot but I have a 20 yr old that s in and out

s.witte, on May 16 2010, 02:11 PM, said:

Hi AI dog owners,

I am new to this forum and the AI dog. I currently own 3 Mudi dogs, and I understand the AI breed may be similar to the AI dog in character. I am not ready to add another dog to my household, but I am ready to research alternate breeds, and obviously I am attracted to dogs that are not over bred, and that are smart and healthy. These are characteristics that led me to getting my first Mudi dog over 6 years ago. I also like the raw nature of the Mudi, a feral awareness that many dog breeds today have lost. I am attracted to dogs that still possess such qualities, but dogs that also are human centered, and able to have a working connection with their owners. I am NOT one who agrees with owning wolves or wolf hybrids, (just to clarify) I believe wild animals should be left in the wild, and not forced to live as domesticated animals, nor "caged" animals....but I digress....

I would like to get opinions from owners of the AI dogs, pertaining to certain characteristics of this breed. Please forgive me if this info is posted somewhere that I may have missed. I also wonder if the caretakers of these dogs do health testings on breeding stock.

1. Is the AI dog a terribly vocal breed?
2. Are hips, elbows or other orthopedic concerns tested on breeding animals? (As typical of other breeds used for breeding, using the OFA primarily for certifying healthy dogs)
3. Is the AI breed a good prospect for a sport such as Agility?
4. Is the AI breed a dog that has an "on" "off" switch?
5. Can the AI dog be left alone for hours while the owner works?

The Mudi is very focused on pleasing the owner, (at least the dogs I know of, there are always exceptions) and I wonder if the AI dog has a similar level of focus when working for the owner (and I do not mean focused as far as looking "at" the owner all the time, but rather focused on the job at hand, no matter what it is, in relation to/with the owner)

Thank you for any insight on these few questions that anyone here can share, I appreciate hearing more about the AI dog, good and bad, in relation to owning and living with them.

As I said previously, I am not ready to add another dog to my home just yet, but maybe in a few years.

Sincerely,
Sue Witte

[Debi]

Right off - welcome!!! Below are some quick answers to your questions from our point of view (we got Soul a year ago).

s.witte, on May 16 2010, 03:11 PM, said:

1. Is the AI dog a terribly vocal breed?
Soul has only been vocal when asked to sing (and sing he does) and when someone comes up to the door or back deck.

2. Are hips, elbows or other orthopedic concerns tested on breeding animals? (As typical of other breeds used for breeding, using the OFA primarily for certifying healthy dogs)
We have had no problems with Soul and as Allison attested, Kim does a wonderful job with breeding and watching the lines for any problems.

3. Is the AI breed a good prospect for a sport such as Agility?
We are working with Soul on agility, he loves it. He is learning weave and other small tricks - the intelligence level of this breed is amazing. It usually only takes a few times for him to "get" it. Now, having said that - yesterday he refused to do anything. I think it was his way of saying "enough"!

4. Is the AI breed a dog that has an "on" "off" switch?
Soul is still quite young, but we have found that if we are in "down" mode, he will lay at our feet and chill. Kim did a thorough job at asking what "kind" of personality we wanted and I swear Soul is perfect. We got exactly what we asked for - so remember that when/if you choose a certain personality! Bwahahaha

5. Can the AI dog be left alone for hours while the owner works?
I work from home and my husband is a musician, so we aren't often gone for long amounts of time. BUT...Soul was kennel/crate trained and when we have a show out of town, he has been perfectly fine for up to 9 hours in his kennel. After that long (and that has only happened a few times in the past year), we shower him with love and affection - but he has learned to wait for it until we settle in.

The Mudi is very focused on pleasing the owner, (at least the dogs I know of, there are always exceptions) and I wonder if the AI dog has a similar level of focus when working for the owner (and I do not mean focused as far as looking "at" the owner all the time, but rather focused on the job at hand, no matter what it is, in relation to/with the owner).

Soul is eager to please. While headstrong and very strong in his personality - he is very focused on any task we set forth for him. Within the past two weeks we have worked with him on his yard training and while birds and bees distract him - he does now listen to us immediately when told to "halt".

I never thought we would find a breed that fit each of our personalities to a tee - but we have. Soul is everything we hoped for and a little more. As I said, his intelligence is amazing and we are often praised on his beauty.

[linda]

Debi I agree with you I dont know how Kim does it but he finds the right dog for the right family he kept saying I had special needs like I was handicapped or something yes malachi can be hard to handle at times but thats my whole family
we will anything you ask but have voice out apinions first haha! thats mal complains tell you his side and what he wants but is as sweet as all I tell alot of people he fits right in with us I would not change him for the world same with Snake he the quiet side but can be crazy and silly at times .

Debi, on May 19 2010, 07:52 AM, said:

Right off - welcome!!! Below are some quick answers to your questions from our point of view (we got Soul a year ago).



I never thought we would find a breed that fit each of our personalities to a tee - but we have. Soul is everything we hoped for and a little more. As I said, his intelligence is amazing and we are often praised on his beauty.

[s.witte]

Hi Linda, Debi, Allison, Miz Molly, Karen, and Judy K,

Thank you all for your thoughts on the AI dog. You have helped me gain a better understanding of what might be expected if I was to own one of these dogs. I will say I am totally smitten by what I have read and the photos/videos I have seen thus far.

I plan to continue with the process of learning and discovering, and hope to meet one in the near future and hopefully the powers that be will insure I will have my very own AI dog in the not so distant future!!!

Regards,
Sue

[Allison]

You sound very experienced with dogs. It will be fun to see what you can do with one of our dogs.

Here is more from Kim:

Kim LaFlamme said:

The AI dogs, unlike other breeds, have not been carbon copied to the point where they are all so related to one another that they are basically just one or 2 dogs with the exact same personalities. This makes it real hard to "pigeon-hole" the entire breed into one personality profile description.

There are about 5 different personality types that are "locked into" the genetics that we try not to loose--all humble good qualities, but different. Here again, that is why we try to match the personality with the owner's lifestyle. All the personalities have the AIDog qualities, but slightly different because of the breed variables within this one breed.

To me this is a good thing and shows the health of any species or breed family.

For more information on the pedigree of the American Indian Dog, see Pedigree Analysis of the American Indian Dog

To better understand how important variable genetic bloodlines
can be for any population we want to SAVE or KEEP HEALTHY, wild or
genetic, see Dr. Bragg's Article:

Purebreds into the 21st Century