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Northern Outcross


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#1 Allison

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 05:45 PM

NorthernOutcross.JPG

SO! ~ Are these ears big enough for you <g> This picture is of the pup (F-3 generation, northern out-cross) Nakia X Red Rider, Iím keeping for breeding. This is more than proof, along with the other litters, that the northern line that I choose was the right old northern lines of old Chatchi Indian Dogs. Even though I researched these old lines thoroughly before using them & so had the original breeders trying to save them with DNA research. This to me is the perfect end result I was hoping for. Those of you that were concerned they would end up with smaller ears & bigger boned can now rest assured.

As in the past when Iíve introduced new lines, itís that out-cross of old primitive types that when combined with the other existing primitive types already in the breeding program, brings out that (breeding backwards) that Iíve tried to explain. Taking two old lines (or in our case 5 old lines) no matter what old bloodline you cross it with it brings out the past of each individual line by doubling up on both together. This is called out-cross vigor & itís what is so desperately needed in all the AKC type modern breeds. But unfortunately they wonít allow out-crosses, but insist on inbreeding to keep the breed all ccís of one dog or there idea of ďpureĒ loosing all those variables you need to maintain any healthy breed for the future. What out-cross vigor can also do is increase the size of both parents for the first generation, but the generations after that come back to the original smaller size that the standard asks for & of the original parents.

The personality is also important for the balance we look for in our A.I.Dog breed, since the last Northern's we found had a slight hip problem we chose to fade out those bloodlines & bring in these new unrelated bloodlines.

So I hope in the future owners will leave the breeding genetics to me & trust me to do that. I would never bring in anything that would hurt our breed or disappoint owners in training or any physical ability for that; ďform = functionĒ that should be the goal of any responsible breeder, breed club or registry. The owners responsibility is learning how to properly train your A.I.Dogs & stay smarter than they are; calm & assertive, respectful educated teachers.

Iím so proud of the over 500 owners that have educated themselves (with a little help from other owners) on how to bring their A.I.Dogs to their full happy potential. I truly hope those 4 ďanti A.I.DogĒ owners will some day understand, they need to take responsibility for there lack of training skills & not blame the dog or breed for their problems. They need to take the time to read & comprehend the owners opinions that over 500 owners have learned from their A.I.Dogs. It can be very detrimental to the happiness & health of a dog to not train them properly.



Kim La Flamme Ö.. founder/trustee
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#2 Waya

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:47 PM

Thanks Kim for sharing this in both groups-the Google group and this Forum. Everybody needs to see the fabulous new pups in both groups!

KK

#3 Allison

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 05:56 AM

Some of you won't notice, but Kim asked me to post this in our new PUBLIC FORUM. Not only is he teaching us, but this thread is available to the whole world--anyone who is interested, may learn about our beautiful dogs.

That pup is extremely beautiful, as well as sentient and intelligent looking--very impressive, and I am very proud to be part of the effort. Keep up the good work, Kim. These dogs are the best!
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#4 Kim La Flamme

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 12:49 PM

Thanks Kim for sharing this in both groups-the Google group and this Forum. Everybody needs to see the fabulous new pups in both groups!

KK

KK & Allison ~ You are very welcome, as you know my thing is education, education & more education anywhere & everywhere. It's so important that everyone understand the background of where this dogs came from & that they are not wolf hybrids or some kind of wild dog cross. As you, KK learned from the article you so kindly put in your local paper about the A.I.Dogs. .... Thank you for helping to put out that positive information in your area about the dogs. People need to understand the past problems, to the point of almost extinction to European explorers thinking they were just a bunch of coyotes or wild dogs following the natives around. So this might never happen again.
The American Indians where very adept at understanding nature, breeding & genetics to keep their dogs healthy & instinctually smart. With the help of all owners & breeders we can keep them that way into the future.
I'm very proud of all the great owners that help to educate the public about these dogs & other owners to train their dogs properly for all the happy dogs out there.
Remember ... education, education, education .... Kim

#5 Dragongurl288

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 04:44 PM

How is the northern outcross different from other types?

#6 Allison

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 03:48 PM

Hi Dragongurl. I have a standard response, but I will try to get you something a little more personal, first.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#7 judyk

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 06:23 AM

Some of you won't notice, but Kim asked me to post this in our new PUBLIC FORUM. Not only is he teaching us, but this thread is available to the whole world--anyone who is interested, may learn about our beautiful dogs.

That pup is extremely beautiful, as well as sentient and intelligent looking--very impressive, and I am very proud to be part of the effort. Keep up the good work, Kim. These dogs are the best!


A very big THANKS to you, Kim, for everything you do, have done and continue to do with this breed and these animals. Your knowledge and continued need for education for both yourself and us, as owners, is appreciated. Unfortunately, there are those that continue to turn a deaf ear to what you teach us and blame their poor animals for the bullheadedness (if there is such a word) of themselves. Even if they would open their ears and acknowledge their mistakes in training their dogs they will never ever have the guts to admit it ... their loss and the poor dog gets blamed for it.

Again, thanks, for the pups, and for letting us be part of the ongoing project you so lovingly continue!!

Judy K in Michigan
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Judy in Michigan

#8 Allison

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 07:08 AM

Dragongurl--

If you look on Kim's web page, under Origins of the Indian Dog, you will see the lines that make up the American Indian Dog. Kim has worked hard to recreate, as closely as possible, the natural diversity of this breed, and the diversity of it's gene pool, which you will know, as a student, is important in maintaining it's superior health, and intelligence.

Be sure to read through his page, as he talks at length, about his breeding program. Here are some words, to you, from Kim:



These outcrosses are just like all the combinations of bloodlines that all the AIDogs have. There is no deference other than from the newest bloodlines brought into the breeding program for awhile Ö. Since Tonka the Common AIDog type that we found in South America from the Mayans.

Itís the balance of all the types together that makes the Plains dogs or AIDogs what they are. Itís like adding a little salt to the stew, that was missing before. This pup was just the result of a new northern line that was recently brought into the breeding program. They all have about a 4th to a 5th % of the northern bloodlines that are called Village Indian Dogs in them. But the last northern lines where pretty much removed because of some potential health issues.

This is all (hopefully) better explained in the ďorigins of the AIDogsĒ with the map that shows where all the types originated from.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

--David Dunning

#9 Dragongurl288

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 03:30 PM

Thanks Allison. That really clears things up.




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