29 replies to this topic

[judyk]

Just heard an awful news report. In Lexington, Kentucky this morning a family discovered that their family dog had taken their few days old child out of his crib and into the yard. (My guess is there was a doggie door) The father had to chase the dog into the woods to retrieve the baby. The baby is in critical condition with bites and puncture wounds. The dog was impounded. The breed of the dog - hold on for this one - a NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We senior members know exactly who this breeder is. My God - she should be impounded along with her dog. The picture on the internet of the dog looks exactly like a wolf - just like all HER dogs do.

Unfortunately, my guess is, we're going to be clumped together by some of the local spies!!!!

Judy K in Michigan

[Karen]

Would someone please change the title of this post to include the words "in the news" or something? I was afraid it was about one of your dogs, I was bracing for the worst. Not that this isn't bad, it is terrible. But I thought something awful had happened to one of your dogs, Judy.

Do you have a link to the story?

[taylorRichie]

Just jumped on to post this:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...UihRqgD99J058O1

that's the link...

Horrible horrible...

And the fact that it says North American Indian Dog causes so much confusion for the world... I just had a co-worker ask if it was the same kind of dog I had... bad bad bad

I let her know the facts though...
NAID = Wolf x Husky hybrid
AID = Pure with no Out Crossings

[elice]

I am certain that I am not the only person whose first exposure to your dog breed is from this terrible story.

However, it appears that it was NOT a viscious aggressive dog attack, but a dog mistake. I was horrified that one news article I read about this incident seemed to make the generalization that this breed was a wolf/coyote mix breed and nothing more. I have strong personal opinions on wild/domestic mixes. I am very glad I took the time to do the research on this breed and see that for the most part this was not the case.

I hope for the sake of what appears at first perusal to be a wonderful breed, that your dogs do not become the 'new' pit bulls. I was very gratified to see page after page of breeders that seem to be responsible. It appears that you have a strong breed club, and I hope you stick to your guns.

a question:

Where is the temperament standard? Being silly and cannot locate...

Thanks in advance for helping me learn about the breed.
Elice

[judyk]

elice, on Jul 21 2009, 07:16 PM, said:

I am certain that I am not the only person whose first exposure to your dog breed is from this terrible story.

However, it appears that it was NOT a viscious aggressive dog attack, but a dog mistake. I was horrified that one news article I read about this incident seemed to make the generalization that this breed was a wolf/coyote mix breed and nothing more. I have strong personal opinions on wild/domestic mixes. I am very glad I took the time to do the research on this breed and see that for the most part this was not the case.

I hope for the sake of what appears at first perusal to be a wonderful breed, that your dogs do not become the 'new' pit bulls. I was very gratified to see page after page of breeders that seem to be responsible. It appears that you have a strong breed club, and I hope you stick to your guns.

a question:

Where is the temperament standard? Being silly and cannot locate...

Thanks in advance for helping me learn about the breed.
Elice

Hi Elice.

The dog from the article is not our breed. We are the American Indian Dog. The dog at issue is the Native American Indian Dog - whole different animal.

Judy K in Michigan

[Michelle]

I saw one article that posted a picture of what looked like one of Kim's dogs with the caption "Native American Indian Dog".

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original...212245648.shtml

We are going to have to do some serious public relations amongst friends, family, co-workers, etc. to make sure our dogs are not associated with this incident. I've already made a post on facebook regarding the issue.

[judyk]

Michelle, on Jul 21 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

I saw one article that posted a picture of what looked like one of Kim's dogs with the caption "Native American Indian Dog".

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original...212245648.shtml

We are going to have to do some serious public relations amongst friends, family, co-workers, etc. to make sure our dogs are not associated with this incident. I've already made a post on facebook regarding the issue.

WOW! That is NOT the picture that was featured on the news blog that I saw. The picture of the dog in question is definitely an NAID! I wonder how that newspaper got that picture! You're absolutely right. We have some serious PR work that must be done otherwise "they're" coming after Kim yet again. The incient dog is white and wolfy!!!

Judy K in Michigan

[Maris Can Fly]

Michelle, on Jul 21 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

I saw one article that posted a picture of what looked like one of Kim's dogs with the caption "Native American Indian Dog".

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original...212245648.shtml

Wow, the irresponsible and lazy person who posted a picture of an AMERICAN Indian Dog with this news story should be fired. They obviously just did a Google search, found Kim's website and used the first picture they found (the picture they used is the one that's at the very top of Kim's website!). If I remember anything from my Writing for the Media class, it is that reporters and others can get in big trouble for using random pictures from the internet for their news stories, especially if the end up misrepresenting an aspect of their story. I'm attaching a pic comparing Kim's website to the news site.



Also, whoever the irresponsible breeder of the NATIVE American Indian Dog in question is should be arrested. This is just terrible.

-Maris

[Maris Can Fly]

elice, on Jul 21 2009, 05:16 PM, said:

I am certain that I am not the only person whose first exposure to your dog breed is from this terrible story . . . I hope for the sake of what appears at first perusal to be a wonderful breed, that your dogs do not become the 'new' pit bulls. I was very gratified to see page after page of breeders that seem to be responsible. It appears that you have a strong breed club, and I hope you stick to your guns.

Hi Elice!

The dog in the news story is a Native American Indian Dog, which is completely different from the American Indian Dog. Native American Indian Dogs are pretty much just wolf and husky crosses (sometimes with other breeds mixed in too). Make sure you read through all of Kim's site: www.indiandogs.com so you understand the difference.

-Maris

[Michelle]

judyk, on Jul 21 2009, 08:17 PM, said:

WOW! That is NOT the picture that was featured on the news blog that I saw. The picture of the dog in question is definitely an NAID! I wonder how that newspaper got that picture! You're absolutely right. We have some serious PR work that must be done otherwise "they're" coming after Kim yet again. The incient dog is white and wolfy!!!

Judy K in Michigan

I came across that article while searching for the story - I have never heard of them before. There were other articles that did show the dog in question, and yes, clearly not an AID. But that's exactly the kind of misinformation that unfortunately gets spread around. I can only imagine how upset Kim will be...perhaps he should contact the paper that ripped off his photo (thanks Maris for posting the picture of the AID page for clarification).

[Karen]

I sent this to the publishers of the online article that included the photo from the Song Dog website:

The photograph that accompanied the story about the Native American Indian Dog that killed the baby was of an American Indian Dog, which is an indigenous breed of dog, not a wolf hybrid. Please run a correction - it won't be enough, but owners of these dogs are going to have a lot of work ahead of us to protect the reputation of our dogs and the breed as it is. We don't need lazy reporters making mistakes right now.

Karen Hyams
Owner of an American Indian Dog
http://www.iidoba.org

[Allison]

I have edited the title, as requested. I have not heard back from Kim, yet, and as you say, he will be upset to learn that someone has has made a mistake on the dog picture.

[Allison]

Karen, you letter may have worked, as I do not see that picture anymore. If someone else does, please let us know.

Poor dog. Why do I get the feeling that we are not hearing the whole story?

What a contrast to the nurturing behavior of our dogs. If you haven't seen the new The Babysitters, in his "Dogs with Jobs", section, take a look. We have many more pictures to add.

Just heard from Shannon, the mother of the babe at the top of the babysitters, concerning this story. She was worried, like we all are, that the press will not make the distinction between the hybrids, and our dog of the indigenous people (thanks Karen), the American Indian Dog.

[Allison]

Gee, I've been thinking and thinking about this story. If they knew it was a hybrid, why did they not take adequate precautions for the new born? The dog/wolf, only acted as they do--as their nature tells them. It is not a bad creature, and it's nature was totally predictable, but now it must pay with it's life for the humans lack of planning.

I think I am beginning to see why Kim has become so passionate about this hybrid issue.

[linda]

I was sent an email on this today I sure if you google you can find it I have seen these naids up close and personal they have alot wolf in them I did correct the person I am sure I got it because of snake ( I forward the mail to the forum do not know if it got through )

judyk, on Jul 21 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

Just heard an awful news report. In Lexington, Kentucky this morning a family discovered that their family dog had taken their few days old child out of his crib and into the yard. (My guess is there was a doggie door) The father had to chase the dog into the woods to retrieve the baby. The baby is in critical condition with bites and puncture wounds. The dog was impounded. The breed of the dog - hold on for this one - a NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We senior members know exactly who this breeder is. My God - she should be impounded along with her dog. The picture on the internet of the dog looks exactly like a wolf - just like all HER dogs do.

Unfortunately, my guess is, we're going to be clumped together by some of the local spies!!!!

Judy K in Michigan

[Jamacee]

I just saw this and it appears they changed the pic of the dog on that internet news site.

on another note didn't realize Kim updated the pics in the Dogs with Jobs page - who is the dog doing search and rescue leashed to that beautiful 88 extra cab toyota p'up of kims?

[Jamacee]

Allison, on Jul 22 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

Gee, I've been thinking and thinking about this story. If they knew it was a hybrid, why did they not take adequate precautions for the new born? The dog/wolf, only acted as they do--as their nature tells them. It is not a bad creature, and it's nature was totally predictable, but now it must pay with it's life for the humans lack of planning.

I think I am beginning to see why Kim has become so passionate about this hybrid issue.

Allison according to the AP article richie posted i will quote it -

Smith, who is the owner of a security company where his wife also works, said the dog was treating the baby as a puppy and wasn't being vicious.

But he expects that Dakota, who was taken into custody by animal control, will be destroyed. The 4-year-old was one of three dogs the family had owned since they were puppies and had no history of aggression, even when playing with Smith's two other children from a previous marriage, he said.

"It wasn't a vicious dog attack," Smith said. "She had A.J. for 10 minutes on her own, and if you look at A.J.'s belly, there's about 100 little marks. All the dog had to do was one bite and A.J. wouldn't be here."

Associated Press writer Bruce Schreiner in Louisville, Ky., contributed to this report.



he had never had this issue with the other children + from when I was ignorant and begining to look at these dogs before I was enlightened. I spoke with one lady who swore she bred 100% wolves and they were the best babysitters a=out of any dog and hybrids were the ones you had to worry about. Then the Hybrid breeders would go on and on about how great their dogs are with kids.

I mean the parents said they had the baby in the crib and were getting a bath ready for the baby. Who would think the dog/hybrid would actually remove the baby from the crib.

Sad thing all around.

[Allison]

Thanks J. Yes sad.


First, Maris, I want to keep the subject together, and these are the same people, the same words, that we have had to deal with for several years, So we have resolved to keep up the good fight, and not give them air time on our site. I do hope you understand, and you are welcome to speak with me, if you have any questions.

Secondly, here are some words from Kim La Flamme to all interested parties. He is getting hundred's of emails. Members, please pass this on to the various sites you belong to.

Kim La Flamme said:

I have been trying to educate the public for years now about wolf hybrids & have rescued many through the years. So being as this is not a DOG at all, you will need to contact a wolf hybrid rescue … here is a good one for you to contact & more true information for you to pass on. Below that, is information on true AIDogs & the difference from wolf dogs, thanks ~
The Milo Sanctuary

As horrible & sad as this whole thing is, people have to learn some day …. We have been trying to rescue & educate about “these hybrids” for 8 years now since they started their false advertising of wolf dogs. I now know of over 60 that have had to be put down (just NAID’s) not even including the millions of wolf hybrids that are sold as wolf hybrids or NAID’s now in rescue’s.

THIS IS NOT A TRUE AIDOG OR FOR THAT MATTER A TRUE DOG.

What these horrible breeders of NAID’s are calling “so called” Native American Indian Dogs or NAID’s are actually wolf hybrids that we “AIDog” owners & breeders are trying to educate people about … please read below … I have run into this over & over trying to educate the public that wolf hybrids do not make trusting family pets & can’t help save all the huge numbers that were put down last year alone & the other millions have filled the rescue’s. But most of all these are not anything even close to the actual old dogs.

It’s these breeders that falsely advertise them as NAID’s that need to be stopped to begin with & the public desperately needs to be educated about them. Please read the important information (below) & help us educate people … this is the beginning of solving this problem as it is not this wolf hybrids fault but the breeders breeding them & falsely advertising them as DOGS (especially our wonderful true Native AIDOGS …. & yes this dog should be spayed or neutered & not put down, but put with people that know & can rescue these poor wolf hybrids stuck in a world they don’t belong in, neither wild nor domestic. It's the breeders that should be shot! The lady, Karen Markel in MI, is the person that started this false advertising of Majestic view Kennels … calling her wolf dogs NAID’s.

Please be careful & do your research, what they are calling NAID's (not AIDogs) are actually wolf hybrids ... Please read all the important information below & feel free to give me a call for owners of true AIDogs near you or more information :



We are the only founder/trustee breeders of the true American Indian Dogs. We have owners near you & in all the US states, Canada & Europe, ( if you would like to meet or talk to them about their AIDogs, give me a call - 541-597-2871 - & I will give you there phone #’s) but there are no other breeders. All true original AIDog pups related to the OLD DOGS come only from here at Song Dog kennels in Southern Oregon. Please read all through our web sites & the important information (below) before calling for an interview & or owners near you.







Thanks for your inquiry concerning American Indian Dogs. To become an owner of an A.I.Dog, we require a phone interview to determine if this is the right breed of Dog for you, your lifestyle & vise versa. Puppies are $850.00, not including shipping, please read all through the web sites before calling & the 'owners opinions,’ testimonial pages, Origins of the AIDogs, Modern History page plus the many A.I.Dog web site links; (listed below). This price we put on pups is just what it costs us to just “break even” to maintain all of the individual breeders & save them as a breed, keeping them healthy & preserved for future generations to enjoy. We don’t even expect a wage or profit for ourselves here at Song Dog Kennel or IIDOBA our breed club. We do except donations of meat, dog food, help & thank all those owners, IIDOBA board of directors, web site builders, local butchers & markets that have helped save our breed.







In our opinion & more than 800 owners of AIDogs now; …. AIDogs have the most unlimited potential also the smartest dogs for training than any other dog breed in the world today. We are continuing the selective breeding taught to us by our elders, using them for working service dogs for handy capped children, therapy dogs, search & rescue, drug & bomb dogs, amazing family companions, frisbee champions, lure coursing, ski joring, sled dog racing …etc. They are the closest thing we have left today of the Old aboriginal “First Nations Peoples” dogs, descended from the old dogs from thousands of years ago. Since we do not want them involved with AKC or any of the “big brother” registry’s …. there has been lots of miss conceptions & political miss information through the 50 years we have been researching & saving this “breed”. So please try to learn all about them before you read the miss information & become confused by these people that don’t understand the “Old Ways” & differing cultural teachings. Much of this slanderous miss information has been spread by these so called NAID's breeders, that refused to fallow the breeding code of ethics & rules set up by our breed club; trying to start their own club to change the name of their wolf hybrids to NAID's. Don’t believe the hoax set up by these "want to be’s", trying to slander the true AIDogs; calling their wolf hybrids Native American Indian Dogs and slandering tour true AIDogs and the founders & owners of the AIDog breed.



Also be sure you understand that the A.I.Dog is not a wolf & or coyote hybrid, as there are unscrupulous wolf hybrid breeders trying to market their wolf & or coyote hybrids now, falsely calling them, so called; ‘’ Native American Indian Dogs”, N.A.I.D.s or Native American Shepherds - If you are looking for a wolf hybrid we would not recommend them for family pets …. but at least if you are looking for a wolf hybrid …. find an ethical breeder that will tell you what you are getting.







Here are a few contact experts to help you understand what a wolf hybrid is & the unscrupulous breeders trying to market them as Indian Dogs, as it is very important to know the deference, you don’t want a wolf hybrid as a family pet …. don’t let them fool you into believing wolf hybrids make good family pets; THIS IS A HOAX. For true facts please contact = --- Eileen Liska; Michigan State wild life Lobbyist = eliska01@comcast.net --- James Hammill, Wild life consultant / Biologist for the State of Michigan = 906-875-6487 or jimhammill@hughes.net ----- Beth Duman, wolf dog expert = peziza@aol.com ---- Marci Tepper, head of Co, Humane Society where wolf dog breeders are in Michigan = 616-835-0580. I can also give you a long list of people that bought these false Indian dogs that had to give them up to rescue’s or have them euthonized. Please contact these experts for questions on wolf hybrids or what is a REAL American Indian Dog & unethical breeders calling them NAID’s. Plus talk to people that know all about wolf hybrids & what is happening with all of our rescue’s being full up with them & every year 2.2 million are euthonized. …. For further information on this subject or if you are just looking for a rescue dog of any breed or mixed breed from a very reputable sanctuary, that needs a good home go to ; http://www.milofoundation.org = Gregory Slugocki - Sanctuary Manager - Milo Sanctuary – 707-459-0930.



There are now lots of unethical breeders trying to get a hold of our true A.I.Dogs. In order to breed them to their hybrids & other breeds to increase their breeds health & disposition, but this does nothing for our A.I.Dog breed, as it is already very healthy & our selective breeding is controlled & doing very well. This is one reason we do not allow back yard breeder owners & require spay & neutering with our breed, to keep it healthy, both mentally & physically, plus we want to continue to breed in the “Old Ways” taught to us by our ancestors, with very controlled breeding programs ….. please be careful of these unethical breeders.







For more info., on true registered A.I.Dogs & or an interview to get on the A.I.Dogs waiting list, please call me at 541- 597-2871. I can give you the phone # of the closest A.I.Dog area rep. that has a list of owners close to you … to talk to you about there AIDogs or that would love to show you their A.I.Dogs. It’s the individual owners of any dog that shows the true potential of any breed, so please do your research & contact owners of any breed you are interested in. Of coarse talk to the breeders, but some breeders won’t give you there buyers names, (but only breeders that got dogs from them) so get the owners of there breed or individual dogs phone #’s to see what they think of the breed & or individual dogs.







We usually have a litter coming soon, or pups available, so if you are interested in the AIDog breed, give us a call …. You can also read about new research, talk to AIDog owners & up-dates on pups that may be available on our owners IIDOBA forum at; www.iidoba.org/forums ….. thanks for your interest ~







Kim La Flamme,



Founder/trustee of the A.I.Dog breed for over 45 years & Pres., of the A.I.Dog registry & IIDOBA -- members of the Smithsonian National American Indian Museum, Southern Oregon Indian Center, Red Earth Descendants, National Indian Rights Alliance - www.indiandogs.com - www.americanindiandogs.com - www.iidoba.org – IIDOBA (AIDog breed club) forum = www.iidoba.org/forums/ - www.nativeamericandogs.com - www.nativeamericandogs.info - www.ipdba.8k.com - www.k9kings.com









Kim La Flamme ~ founder/trustee of the AIDog breed for over 45 years -- www.indiandogs.com

[Michelle]

thanks Karen for contacting that site and getting that photo removed. Boy did my heart sink when I first saw it.

And thanks Allison for posting Kim's comments. Let's hope people will take the time to discover the vast difference between AID's and NAIDs and other wolf hybrids.

[Allison]

Thought you would all like to see this note from Kim. He is talking about all the emails that have drowned him since this story broke:

Kim La Flamme said:

……. & then there is all this crap pet junk from China bugging me, pet business? …. The world is falling apart at the seams … I’m ready to run away into the mountains with my dogs …. wish I could take all the great owners & their dogs with me too.

Ooopppsss guess I’ve already done that, no place left to go <g>





All this makes me stop & realize just how much you, the forum & owners, mean to me & the dogs …… & [I don't know] what I would have done without all the support & help from every one ~