35 replies to this topic

[bigdog322]

Hello all!

I am another Newbie to your world, though not to the dog wold. I recently relocated from Chicago IL to Arlington Texas with my 4 dogs (Cacaucasian Ovcharka, South African Boerboel, RottXBlMastf and a NeoXAmStaf) I happened to come to this site in a round about way through Molosser Dogs.

I was a Police Officer in the Chicago area for 5+yrs prior to relocating to Texas. I have been around, worked with and trained several different breeds of dogs for many years. The AIdogs has intrigued me with its primitave history (not unlike my Ovcharka, though different in their nature) I really look forward to learning more about this breed!

I do have one question in regards to the breeding. From what I have been reading about the history it sounds as if every so often the breed would be outcrossed to a coyote, yet there is non allowed now. Could someone please inform me of why?

Thanks to all in advance, look forward to reading responses

Richard

[Allison]

Hello Richard. Welcome. I have passed your question onto the expert for an answer, but in the mean time, perhaps you might tell us how you came by your current dogs. Let's face it, these dogs you describe are not for everybody. In fact, after looking up some of these names, one might suggest the word "aggressive".

[bigdog322]

Allison, on Jan 22 2009, 02:42 PM, said:

Hello Richard. Welcome. I have passed your question onto the expert for an answer, but in the mean time, perhaps you might tell us how you came by your current dogs. Let's face it, these dogs you describe are not for everybody. In fact, after looking up some of these names, one might suggest the word "aggressive".

Hello Allison!
Thank you for passing along my question. "How did I come upon my current dogs" Bwahahaha! I do tend to get that alot! I've been a dog freak for many many years, and have always leaned more towards the mastiff/bully breeds with my first pup being one of the best Boxers ever (imo). I got into the training and sport work with dogs bout 10years ago with my boxer, over time I just started researching more and more different dog breeds as I started noticeing the poor qualities of american breed dogs and started looking for rare breeds. I got interested in Bandogs (my 2 female crosses) for there working/Protection abilities. I wouldnt use the word "aggressive" to describe my dogs as to me that would mean they go out looking for trouble, away from my home all my dogs are very polite and very social, they accompany me just about everywhere. Being a police officer I wanted a protector for my home when I wasnt there (as todays public can find out everything about anyone) and my Ovcharka and Boerboel did the job perfectly while i lived in Chicago.
I definitly agree that these breeds are not for the average pet home, that is why I have spent a great deal of time working and training them. Then again I am not an average guy (6'5" and 240lbs) so my pups are lil dogs to me

[Jan]

bigdog322, on Jan 22 2009, 01:19 PM, said:

Hello all!

I am another Newbie to your world, though not to the dog wold. I recently relocated from Chicago IL to Arlington Texas with my 4 dogs (Cacaucasian Ovcharka, South African Boerboel, RottXBlMastf and a NeoXAmStaf) I happened to come to this site in a round about way through Molosser Dogs.

I was a Police Officer in the Chicago area for 5+yrs prior to relocating to Texas. I have been around, worked with and trained several different breeds of dogs for many years. The AIdogs has intrigued me with its primitave history (not unlike my Ovcharka, though different in their nature) I really look forward to learning more about this breed!

I do have one question in regards to the breeding. From what I have been reading about the history it sounds as if every so often the breed would be outcrossed to a coyote, yet there is non allowed now. Could someone please inform me of why?

Thanks to all in advance, look forward to reading responses

Richard

Hi Richar,
I'm not the expert on these dogs however, they haven't
been bred with coyote for many many years. The Indians did that years ago to give their dogs certain traits. The indian dog is not nor will be bred with the coyote because we don't want the wild tendicies to come forward in our dogs. As you may know any hybrid can come with a lot of issues, if you look at wolf dogs for example, they can become very shy and not in a good way. Being a trainer, I sure you can relate to shyness leading to unpredictable. Most dogs that are aggressive is out of fear, not because they are just mean spirited.
I raise and train exotics, which i have found are easier to train in some ways more than dogs. I personally haven't heard of your dogs, but I would love to see pictures. I've had my Indian dog for almost 2 years , I had to learn how to train her, even though I've been traing big cats and bears for years.. if you look at my dog on the street I get asked all the time is she part wolf or coyote. These dogs have a more wild gate to them, they are extremly fast and they prance almost like a horse. My dog is still young but if someone
broke into my house it would be my Florida Panther that would protect me not Quodi, all she might do is lick them to death. Alot of people are leary of big dogs or dogs who have gotten bad reps ex. Pit Bulls. Dogs are just dogs its all in how you train them to be. I am one who doesn't have a problem with dogs being trained to be protective of its owner. My family raised German Shepards and one thing for sure you never had to worry when we were kids. They were good dogs unless someone was threating us. Any way welcometo our web site, who know maybe you may want one of our pups someday.
Take Care,
Jan

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[taylorRichie]

Wow... Interesting...

My Doberman recently passed away, and I can tell you they are just overgrown sweethearts, not much unlike the AIDogs. They work in agility, protection, service, and therapy. On all my research I landed here on the AIDogs... Main reason I didn't want a dog that had the issues of standard AKC dogs. My dog lived to be 8 years old... that's way way too young.

Kim has had dogs live 22 years old!!

I researched the rare breeds, Ovcharka, Boerbel, different Mastiffs, Corso's etc.

I never did protection work, but was going to join the local schutzhund club to give my dog a job

My main hobbies include active outdoor activities, like Camping, hiking, backpacking, Shooting etc... So I figured a breed that would fit better in those environments, and be off leash.

I think an Ovcharka would take down a bear if it had a mind to... so probably not the best breed for those activities... that and I'm 5'10" 155lbs... so Having a dog bigger than you may not be the best idea. Though I think it's an amazing breed and with the right handler could produce amazing dogs.

Welcome to the group, the breeder has a wealth of knowledge, isn't shy about sharing it.

[Jan]

bigdog322, on Jan 22 2009, 01:19 PM, said:

Hello all!

I am another Newbie to your world, though not to the dog wold. I recently relocated from Chicago IL to Arlington Texas with my 4 dogs (Cacaucasian Ovcharka, South African Boerboel, RottXBlMastf and a NeoXAmStaf) I happened to come to this site in a round about way through Molosser Dogs.

I was a Police Officer in the Chicago area for 5+yrs prior to relocating to Texas. I have been around, worked with and trained several different breeds of dogs for many years. The AIdogs has intrigued me with its primitave history (not unlike my Ovcharka, though different in their nature) I really look forward to learning more about this breed!

I do have one question in regards to the breeding. From what I have been reading about the history it sounds as if every so often the breed would be outcrossed to a coyote, yet there is non allowed now. Could someone please inform me of why?

Thanks to all in advance, look forward to reading responses

Hey Richard,
I just went on line to look up your dogs that I wasn't familar with The Cacaucasian Ovcharka is amazingly beautiful! He is bigger than my cat! I just cant get over how beautiful. now that is a dog that I would feel safe with.
Jan

[bigdog322]

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the input! I wasnt trying to imply that the AIDogs should be outcrossed again, just was curious as to why small percentages of Coyote was not allowed. I can understand not wanting to have the wild tendency pop up in litters. Though I would think not so much of the offspring as being shy but the natural aversions (flight of fight) showing up in them. This natural aversion is why people that believe if they have a wolf/GSD hybrid its gonna be a great protection dog because it has wolf blood in it are wrong. Wolfs have a natural instint to flee from an encounter. The problem is to often people try to push themselves onto theses dogs. At any rate I am rambling on, sorry.

My Ovcharka gets me stopped on the street all the time as well! I have had people ask my countless time what breed is he? does he have wolf blood in him? He looks like a bear! Bwahahaha! So I can image the looks and questions owners of AIDogs get!
Yes I already do have a fondness for these dogs and maybe someday after I learn more about them I will be blessed to have a companion or two

I am trying to upload a picture of my old Ovcharka (sadly he crossed to the other side this past Thanksgiving) and a picture of my new puppy.

Wow! You have a panther?!? Email me about that! interesting!

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 

[bigdog322]

TaylorRichie hello!

I do all the same outdoor activities as you and I bring all my dogs with me, so far I have not had any issues with them being off leash in the NorthWoods of Wisconsin. In fact I spent the entire month of Nov 07 camping/fishing/hunting in the National Forest with my dogs without issue. It really depends on the amount of time put into their training (imo).

My old Ovcharka was amazing and you would be surpised for as "ferocious" as they are made out to be, with their owners they are the biggest mushballs. Dont worry about your size, a very close friend of mine had both a Caucasian Ovcharka and a Central Asian Ovcharka and she was only 5'4" maybe 120lbs if that and had absolute control over both!
But enough about me and my dogs. Tell me about your experences with your AIDogs!

Richard

[Jamacee]

hello Richard,

Welocome. Any thing you could possibly want to know about AIDogs you can read at either the IIDOBA or on the song dog kennels site. Out of all your animals the South African Boerboel is one of the most fascinating to me. Before I found AIDogs that was the dog I was wanting to go with when my boy went to puppy heaven. I too have spent maybe the last 12 years of my life "only" interested in molossus dogs or bully breeds. I have a 12 yr old APBT w/ 3 legs Bwahahaha but when he was in his prime ( and not deaf) he was trained in Czech hand signals and treats Bwahahaha.
I came to this place from researching for 8 mo. about wolves and wolf crosses mostly b/c I was curious and always in love w/ the animal. However all that changed the day I found song dog kennels and stayed up till like 2'oclock in the morning reading "EVERY" singal page on Kims site. Then I called the man and talked his ear off probs to the point that he says "Oh god not that guy from Ga. again" Bwahahaha. Honestly tho I found him to be a very trustworthy fellow and full of real good wisdom about his animals. He was different from any other breeder I had ever met. You can tell he is not doing this for any other reason than for the pure love and respect of his 'family'.
I still love bully dogs and always will. However I'm ready for a thinking animal ( Richard you do not have to defend your dogs I am sure they are very smart ) a animal that reasons like a wolf or a coyote but isn't one ( for my 5mo. baby daughters sake ). Right now I do not have one or have even gotten to the point of placing my deposit down on one. I am however convinced this is the type of dog I want. So I sit here on the forum and live vicariously thru others learning ,watching,and reading till its my turn.

My whole family is from chicago btw. Except me I was raised a Ga. boy. However I have very fond memories of the west burbs and the city. So here are a couple questions...how did you feel about that giant chrome gelly bean downtown? Are you a cubbies or sox fan? Have you ever eaten at Berghoffs?

Bwahahaha and welcome to the forum,


Jason

[bigdog322]

Hello Jason,

Seems that we have a few similarities, I cant tell you how many hours I have spent searching site after site after site about different breeds, have befriended anyone and everyone in the dog word! I am hoping to have a chance to speak with the man in charge here soon. I have spent the past 4 days pouring over both this site and Song Dog as well as any link they have. I read a few of the post here before I decided to register.

Bully breeds are great and love them to death, but I to was looking for a more independent breed thats how I got into the Ovcharka's (spent almost 3yrs researching them before taking the next step). These AIDogs really have cought my interest.

Chi-Town!!!!!! Will always be home!!!! The "BEAN"?!? WASTE OF $$$$$!!!!!! I'm a North Sider!!!! My father grew up about 4blks from Wrigley. GO CUBBIES!!!!! Never did go to Berghoffs, more of a pizza guy. Where in the Western Burbs you from?

Thanks again Jason

Richard

[Allison]

From Kim:

Kim La Flamme said:

If we added more coyote to an already primitive smart breed, that doesn’t need to be any more primitive than it already is now, most people would have an even harder time than they already do with training. They are almost too smart for most modern people as they are, no need to be even smarter & more instinctive.



We want them to better adjust to modern living not make it harder on them …. & owners. They are perfect the way they are by combining the different types together for that balance. If you’ve ever been around coyotes, coy dogs or wolf dogs you would know, they don’t fit into our modern lives. Plus there is such a thing as over doing a good thing, when looking for & breeding for balance, …… as unfortunately seen in many modern dog breeds today ~

[Karen]

Welcome, Richard, and I'll add myself to the ranks of fans/owners of bully and other strong breeds. We have a ten-year-old pit mix, fostered a few pits, and our first dog was a Bouvier.



That's our AI pup, doing one of her favorite things! Now it is one of Roscoe's favorite's too. He'll lie on his back with his belly up and his eyes closed while she pulls on his skin and legs with her teeth.

Karen

[bigdog322]

Allison, on Jan 23 2009, 10:36 AM, said:

From Kim:

Hi Allison,

Thanks for the response, insightful! I hadnt thought of it like that.

[bigdog322]

Karen, on Jan 23 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

Welcome, Richard, and I'll add myself to the ranks of fans/owners of bully and other strong breeds. We have a ten-year-old pit mix, fostered a few pits, and our first dog was a Bouvier.



That's our AI pup, doing one of her favorite things! Now it is one of Roscoe's favorite's too. He'll lie on his back with his belly up and his eyes closed while she pulls on his skin and legs with her teeth.

Karen

Thank you Karen!
What a cute lil pup! How old is she?

[Karen]

bigdog322, on Jan 23 2009, 09:53 AM, said:

Thank you Karen!
What a cute lil pup! How old is she?

In the photo she is 8 weeks old. She is currently enjoying her 15 minutes of fame, as the dog of the month. She's a little over a year old now.

[Allison]

Jamacee said:

when he was in his prime ( and not deaf) he was trained in Czech hand signals

Coyo is a hunting dog, and he is trained to hand signals. We have one signal that means, "you go around one way, and I'll come around the other", very useful when sneaking up on animals or friends. We shoot with a camera.

He instinctively knew how to herd, quarter, point, and he flushes Pheasant like a champ (although my husband says that it's hell on the pipes).

I can point to a trail, and ask him, is it, dog, cat, rat, bird, squirrel, deer/antelope/elk, raccoon, or bear? Oh, and Possum, too, he knows. He seems to be already picking up the difference between elk, deer, and antelope, but needs more practice on the names, and that is all about working in the field.

The First People also used them to herd fish. I put together our words "water" and "squirrel", to help him visually follow beaver, and muskrat.

He has taught me how to use shadow to walk within a few feet of a group of birds, how to save my strength on long distance jogs, and we compete to see who can be more quiet trotting through the fallen leaves.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, these dogs are smart--born to hunt, and to work with you. And that is what they do, whether it is catching a frisbee, pulling a sled, or showing you where the rats are getting in the house.

I had the honor to rescue one of our dogs from a home where they said she was a runner. It was an urban area, and they were afraid she'd be hit by a car. It is an amazing and heartbreaking story, but the upshot is, it was clear she was smarter than the people.

[Allison]

P.S. We don't have many hunters online, so it is always nice for me to talk to someone who knows what I mean.

[Jan]

bigdog322, on Jan 22 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the input! I wasnt trying to imply that the AIDogs should be outcrossed again, just was curious as to why small percentages of Coyote was not allowed. I can understand not wanting to have the wild tendency pop up in litters. Though I would think not so much of the offspring as being shy but the natural aversions (flight of fight) showing up in them. This natural aversion is why people that believe if they have a wolf/GSD hybrid its gonna be a great protection dog because it has wolf blood in it are wrong. Wolfs have a natural instint to flee from an encounter. The problem is to often people try to push themselves onto theses dogs. At any rate I am rambling on, sorry.

My Ovcharka gets me stopped on the street all the time as well! I have had people ask my countless time what breed is he? does he have wolf blood in him? He looks like a bear! Bwahahaha! So I can image the looks and questions owners of AIDogs get!
Yes I already do have a fondness for these dogs and maybe someday after I learn more about them I will be blessed to have a companion or two

I am trying to upload a picture of my old Ovcharka (sadly he crossed to the other side this past Thanksgiving) and a picture of my new puppy.

Wow! You have a panther?!? Email me about that! interesting!

Hey Richard,
Thanks for the pics, they are so beautiful. So sorry for your loss. I do have a question though, I have been reading the comments welcoming you to the site, so will someone tell me why people are using term bully dogs? I have never heard that expression before and quite frankly I find it to be a negative saying for these great breeds. I do understand that people may feel the bigger breeds may be dangerous but, really, any one who has spent time around these dogs know they are good dogs, it's all about training. I have a habit of using the word shy, glad you explained it better than me, for the people on here who are not familar with wolf dogs or wolves. Exotics whether it be a canadae (dog) or felidae (cat) are totally different creatures. Even though my boy is a sweet heart, he can still have his moments. he is 8 years old, i have had him since 6 weeks old. In the wild these cats stay with their mother for 18 to 24 months, so they do have terrible twos. When Nakiia was about that age he tested me A LOT! He became very territorial over his turn out area and if anyone went into my pool, he would go to the shallow end and poo so they would get out.. I took him to work with me everyday until he was almost 2. I wanted him exposed to people as much as possible and because of that he is very good with most people. He has only growled at 3 people in 8 years, and course, I believe animals are a good judge of character, and he was right. He is very protective over me. If anyone yells at me he will go after them, and he doesn't forget a thing. He can come up to my sliding glass doors at my home which I believe also helps, he can see me anytime he wants. He sleeps right outside on a chase lounge by my sliding door to my bedroom. A lot of people keep exotics away from their home and I truly believe by him being able to be near any time he wants has made a big difference with him. He is my heart. He eats 5 pounds of raw meat a day, thank God its raw, cause if I had to cook it the poor would starve Bwahahaha. I could talk about him for hours. So that's it in a big nutshell.
Jan

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[bigdog322]

Hi Allison,

That is cool that Coyo can do so many things! I would love to see that! Seeing dogs work in any fashion always makes me smile! Plus I think they are the happier for it! I dont think there is anything quit like the partnership between a human and his working dog!
I am interested in knowing AIDogs hunting skills, are they bayers like hounds? Or will they engage?


Hi Jan,
Thank you for your kind words, the loss of my big baby Badur was very unexpected and unfortunatly unexplainable (I had a post mortem and vet was unable to give a reason). But now I have my new lil boy Elpek (which just happens to be a nephew of Badur).
As for the "bully" comments, there are numerous breeds that fall under that umbrella (APBT, AM, EB, EBT,AmStaff......). Bully owners are some of the most knowledgable and passionate owners there are. "Bully" is not ment as a negative title or description.

What a gorgeous CAT! I was associated with a guy in IL that raised Wolves (also had a black bear, 6 Lynx and countless exotic water fowl and other wild critters) and and from time to time he would have an open house that I would assist with. Well at one of these open houses a friend of his had stopped by with a Panther! I was like a kid at Christmas, I love big cats. Well of course I had to try and figure out a way to get close to this cat (female, Columbian?? South American??? is either of those correct). After about 10-15mins of talking to the guy from a distance, the cat slowly started getting closer and closer untill we were both sitting down across from each other and the cat practically sitting in my lap allowing me to pet her. I was in heaven, that was the coolest thing ever for me. From that moment on I have wanted to have a cat, maybe one day

Richard

[Karen]

"Bully" is just a nickname (affectionate) for Bulldog.

Karen