dug 0 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hi AI Dog People! I live in NE Oregon. I hope to have ground to farm later this year in the Grande Ronde Valley. As part of that picture, I'm very interested in finding a dog to be part of my vision. I hope to raise not only a large food garden, but additionally... I'll be raising approx. 200 chickens annually for both meat and eggs. Boar goats and pigs will also be members of the farm family. Ideally, the dog I'm seeking would be a member of our home family as well as a farm yard guardian. Predators from the sky and ground will no doubt be a part of this picture. I have reservations about the dual role I've just described. It's my experience that family dogs don't generally work well as farm/ranch watchdogs… and vise versa. I mean, who'd want to sleep with chickens in January when there's a warm carpet by a fireplace. Beyond what I've read on line, I know very little about this AI dogs. I do know that I have a VERY STRONG FEELING about this… esp. after what I've read and seen in the pictures. I'd be very grateful to hear from anyone out there with regard to the following: 1. Does anyone have direct experience with the combinations of needs I've described as they relate to AI Dogs? 2. In preparation for our new farm family member, I'd would like your recommendation on training material that would be best suited to the AI dog breed. Esp. a very clear road to starting a puppy/owner relationship. • I've heard good things about the following: • Cesar Millan "The Dog Whisperer" • The Monks of New Skeet • Jan Fennell - Title - The Dog Listener - And - The Puppy Listener Any help will be most appreciated! Should anyone be having trouble sleeping, here is a link to a website that describes in greater detail both my vision for my future farm as well as views of our past farming experience. www.dougsfarm.com Best to all, Dug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Allison 2,369 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hi Doug. I can't answer all your questions, we're mostly city dwellers, but I have been able to teach my dogs, the difference between the birds I want to feed, and the ones I don't. They will let the Crows come in, but not allow the Starlings, or Gulls. I think that is pretty amazing that they can tell the difference. The other day a Great Blue Heron flew through the yard, while they were out, and they watched it, but did not bark. We have a rat problem. They chase the rats, but not the ground birds. It was easy to teach them the difference, but I did have to tell them what was okay to chase, and what wasn't. Our youngest, is very prey driven, and he has also quickly picked up the chasing animals, vs the leaving animals. I am very proud of him-both of them, for that. It was one of our "requests" from Kim, as we've spent a long time taming our neighborhood birds, and we did not want to lose them. Our youngest is just a year, and he will scare away the Blue Jays, if they land next to him, but he is getting better about that. Our oldest will stay still while they land and take nuts, right next to him. I have hopes that the younger will, also. Our Rancher/members do not get on line much. Busy life, I guess. However, I have heard wonderful things from them about how well their dogs have grown into the working dog they want and need. It makes me envy that life. I know mine would love more "work" to do, and revel in the feeling of a job well done. We camp every year. My older dog will stand stock still next to me, while a deer walks in front of us. He waits for my signal to "go". The younger, is still so excited, that he may take off after a creature, but again, we are working on that, we only work these few weeks a year, and I can see he is coming around. So I can imagine that daily exposure and routine would produce and excellent working dog. They accept whoever you say is in the pack--like our Parrot, or your pigs and goats. Anyone outside the pack is then treated differently. You listed all my favorite books. Can't add to that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Allison 2,369 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Ideally, the dog I'm seeking would be a member of our home family as well as a farm yard guardian. I mean, who'd want to sleep with chickens in January when there's a warm carpet by a fireplace. Most of us hate to think of our dogs outside in the cold. I will tell you that if you relent, and let them into the house, their ears and attention will still be outside, and they will alert you. I think if you have a dog door, you may witness them go in and out, to check. But that fireplace sounds very good to me. Of course many of our dogs are outside dogs, and they do fine, until someone tries to make them an inside dog. I have heard many stories of outside dogs taking time to adjust to the warmer temps of humans, and vice versa. I like my dog right next to me, all the time, or guarding the house.....but that's my life, and my dog's. Please let us know what you decide. I will love to hear the progress of our dogs as true working dogs. It is clear, even in our city life, that their minds are set up to work with you, and help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
miz molly 1,800 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hi Doug, I think one thing I can add here is that my AID has learned his property boundaries. I am unfenced, in the Santa Cruz Mountains here in California. I am surrounded by acres and miles of open unfenced forest and meadows to explore and herds of critters to chase. Of course this learning process didn't happen over night, but he has definitely learned where his boundaries are, and what NOT to chase. He will be two in June. I walk the boundary every morning and evening with him, probably more for me now than him. We both enjoy the adventure, and he stays close off leash. These dogs definitely like to stay close to their alpha person, joined at the hip so to speak. If you get an AID, I would bet the pup will become first a family member, and second a working dog. That is not to say that they don't work hard, cuz they do and love the work. They are extremely smart, logically thinking animals, ( more than my Boarder) and extremely sensitive (way more than my Boarder). It's like having a 3 or 4 year old child as far as their sensitivity and curiosity is concerned. They have a spiritual way of getting into your heart that is hard to explain, and impossible to ignore. 10 cents from miz m. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Allison 2,369 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I've been thinking about this...my dogs would LOVE the life you describe. I've made them city, and house dogs, but let's face it, they are working dogs. Born and bred to that ancient line that was a helpmate, to the First Nations People. I have taught them to catch the frisbee, pull the scooter, etc., etc., but guarding the animals, and helping to herd, protect, and be a general helper around a farm, would really show their qualities. If I was in your position, knowing what I know abut this breed, I would not hesitate to get one of these dogs. Their intelligence, and willingness to work with you, would rival any other breed, and surpass most. Their flexibility, and the wide range of tasks and instructions they can take...you won't be disappointed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hi Doug. I can't answer all your questions, we're mostly city dwellers, but I have been able to teach my dogs, the difference between the birds I want to feed, and the ones I don't. They will let the Crows come in, but not allow the Starlings, or Gulls. I think that is pretty amazing that they can tell the difference. The other day a Great Blue Heron flew through the yard, while they were out, and they watched it, but did not bark. We have a rat problem. They chase the rats, but not the ground birds. It was easy to teach them the difference, but I did have to tell them what was okay to chase, and what wasn't. Our youngest, is very prey driven, and he has also quickly picked up the chasing animals, vs the leaving animals. I am very proud of him-both of them, for that. It was one of our "requests" from Kim, as we've spent a long time taming our neighborhood birds, and we did not want to lose them. Our youngest is just a year, and he will scare away the Blue Jays, if they land next to him, but he is getting better about that. Our oldest will stay still while they land and take nuts, right next to him. I have hopes that the younger will, also. Our Rancher/members do not get on line much. Busy life, I guess. However, I have heard wonderful things from them about how well their dogs have grown into the working dog they want and need. It makes me envy that life. I know mine would love more "work" to do, and revel in the feeling of a job well done. We camp every year. My older dog will stand stock still next to me, while a deer walks in front of us. He waits for my signal to "go". The younger, is still so excited, that he may take off after a creature, but again, we are working on that, we only work these few weeks a year, and I can see he is coming around. So I can imagine that daily exposure and routine would produce and excellent working dog. They accept whoever you say is in the pack--like our Parrot, or your pigs and goats. Anyone outside the pack is then treated differently. You listed all my favorite books. Can't add to that. _______ Not sure how to reply here... kinda seem like there should be a new window, sorry folks Dug is a bit techno challenged... ( that's why I need a smart dog! ;-) ------- Allison, your comments/thoughts are very helpful indeed. And very telling to be sure. Just from the photographs I've seen of these dogs, I can see a keen look of high intelligence. I grew up working on Cattle & Sheep Ranches and got very attached to Blue Heelers early on. With our last farm, I tried working with two heelers. Bothers. Bad, bad plan. Starting with picking brothers. Why listen to that cowboy when I've got my brothers ear to chew on?!!! The were great, smart dogs. But they were way to aggressive by nature to work with the subtle jobs I had hoped they'd address. I went the breeder for ONE dog, and got hood winked into a 2for1 deal. I still wonder/regret not having a chance to try that story out with just one dog... But, the issue of the Heeler breed and their inherent aggressive nature would still be a major issue. After all, their bred to push a 1800 pound bull around, not a 5 pound chicken Hearing that your dogs are able to distinguish btwn the bird you like and the ones you don't is truly a great indicator for me! Thanks so much for your time and information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Most of us hate to think of our dogs outside in the cold. I will tell you that if you relent, and let them into the house, their ears and attention will still be outside, and they will alert you. I think if you have a dog door, you may witness them go in and out, to check. But that fireplace sounds very good to me. Of course many of our dogs are outside dogs, and they do fine, until someone tries to make them an inside dog. I have heard many stories of outside dogs taking time to adjust to the warmer temps of humans, and vice versa. I like my dog right next to me, all the time, or guarding the house.....but that's my life, and my dog's. Please let us know what you decide. I will love to hear the progress of our dogs as true working dogs. It is clear, even in our city life, that their minds are set up to work with you, and help. ____________ The Dog Door makes total sense to me. Wouldn't have it any other way. I have an inherent inability to keep animals near me against their will. ( When were not training each other that is...) When I find my next dog, he/she will make their own choice of where to sleep. If it's next to the chickens and goats and pigs, I will sleep easier. But, I may have to get a second dog... to keep me warm I also agree that I really do have a part of me that wants my own best furry friend... right beside me, ALL THE TIME. thanks again. I'll keep ya posted. Edited March 16, 2011 by dug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hi Doug,I think one thing I can add here is that my AID has learned his property boundaries. I am unfenced, in the Santa Cruz Mountains here in California. I am surrounded by acres and miles of open unfenced forest and meadows to explore and herds of critters to chase. Of course this learning process didn't happen over night, but he has definitely learned where his boundaries are, and what NOT to chase. He will be two in June. I walk the boundary every morning and evening with him, probably more for me now than him. We both enjoy the adventure, and he stays close off leash. These dogs definitely like to stay close to their alpha person, joined at the hip so to speak. If you get an AID, I would bet the pup will become first a family member, and second a working dog. That is not to say that they don't work hard, cuz they do and love the work. They are extremely smart, logically thinking animals, ( more than my Boarder) and extremely sensitive (way more than my Boarder). It's like having a 3 or 4 year old child as far as their sensitivity and curiosity is concerned. They have a spiritual way of getting into your heart that is hard to explain, and impossible to ignore. 10 cents from miz m. ______ Great info. Molly. Glad you put that comment in about your Boarder. That's a breed I've also considered in the past. I've also considered Mini Aust. Shepherds. I've works with them as well in the past, but not on the type of farm I'm wanting to create. I know they too are smart animals... But I've got a sense about AI dogs as a breed that is pulling me forward. I like to follow those kind of "feeling" when I have them. And interesting that you mention their Spiritual connection. Because right now, It's something more spiritual that's drawing me towards the AI dog as a breed. Thanks again for your help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 _______ Not sure how to reply here... kinda seem like there should be a new window, sorry folks Dug is a bit techno challenged... ( that's why I need a smart dog! ;-) ------- Allison, your comments/thoughts are very helpful indeed. And very telling to be sure. Just from the photographs I've seen of these dogs, I can see a keen look of high intelligence. I grew up working on Cattle & Sheep Ranches and got very attached to Blue Heelers early on. With our last farm, I tried working with two heelers. Bothers. Bad, bad plan. Starting with picking brothers. Why listen to that cowboy when I've got my brothers ear to chew on?!!! The were great, smart dogs. But they were way to aggressive by nature to work with the subtle jobs I had hoped they'd address. I went the breeder for ONE dog, and got hood winked into a 2for1 deal. I still wonder/regret not having a chance to try that story out with just one dog... But, the issue of the Heeler breed and their inherent aggressive nature would still be a major issue. After all, their bred to push a 1800 pound bull around, not a 5 pound chicken Hearing that your dogs are able to distinguish btwn the bird you like and the ones you don't is truly a great indicator for me! Thanks so much for your time and information. __________ Ranchers/Farmers - I did get a phone tree list of AI owners from Kim, but I'm wondering if there is a way to get a list of the rancher/farmers names so I don't just start calling willy nilly... bugin folk. Any idea's? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Karen 41 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 My dog would love being a farm dog. She loves us, of course, especially me, but if she had the opportunity to fun free as much as she wanted, we'd only see her at mealtimes and possibly at night. Even though you had a bad experience with getting two littermates, I think two dogs would be good for the dogs. I know there are other AID owners with ranches/farms who have done this with great success. The dogs end up working together as a team. Another book I absolutely loved is less of a training guide and more of a dog behavior/psychology book. It's Suzanne Clothier's "Bones Would Rain from the Sky." I think it's a good counterpoint to Cesar Milan, who seems to operate from the assumption that all dogs are the same. She also has a large farm and raises lots of animals. (Her description of teaching her hog to walk on leash is a riot.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
miz molly 1,800 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Ranchers/Farmers - I did get a phone tree list of AI owners from Kim, but I'm wondering if there is a way to get a list of the rancher/farmers names so I don't just start calling willy nilly... bugin folk. Any idea's? Not to worry Dug. I am sure that if you introduced yourself over the phone mentioning that Kim gave you their name, and tell them your interests, (a common thread right there) the conversation will take off. I think we all love to tell other people just how wonderful these animals are, and you just might have a hard time getting a word in edge wise. Have fun with it....they are wonderful folks hand picked by Kim....just can't go wrong with that one. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Not to worry Dug. I am sure that if you introduced yourself over the phone mentioning that Kim gave you their name, and tell them your interests, (a common thread right there) the conversation will take off. I think we all love to tell other people just how wonderful these animals are, and you just might have a hard time getting a word in edge wise. Have fun with it....they are wonderful folks hand picked by Kim....just can't go wrong with that one. . ______ Thanks Molly I'll start calling today! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 My dog would love being a farm dog. She loves us, of course, especially me, but if she had the opportunity to fun free as much as she wanted, we'd only see her at mealtimes and possibly at night. Even though you had a bad experience with getting two littermates, I think two dogs would be good for the dogs. I know there are other AID owners with ranches/farms who have done this with great success. The dogs end up working together as a team. Another book I absolutely loved is less of a training guide and more of a dog behavior/psychology book. It's Suzanne Clothier's "Bones Would Rain from the Sky." I think it's a good counterpoint to Cesar Milan, who seems to operate from the assumption that all dogs are the same. She also has a large farm and raises lots of animals. (Her description of teaching her hog to walk on leash is a riot.) ____________ I agree the team dog idea is a good one for my farm plan, I only think for me I'd need to get one dog at a time for the training part. Thanks for that Book Title as well... it looks really good. I think I'll order that book alone with Cesar's DVD series that includes puppy training. Thanks again!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lisa 130 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 ______Thanks Molly I'll start calling today! Welcome Dug, Where do you live in N.E. Oregon? We live in Monmouth, just a short 15 min. drive West of Salem. If your close we could ge together and you can meet my Hawk. He turned 6 on Christmas. My daughter also has an AID named Chief Joseph and he will be 3 in June and my sister has an AID too named Ma ii. I have had a number of different breeds in my life. If you decide you want an AID you have made the best decision. They are the most amazing dogs. Loyal,loving, ready to do anything you tell them. Kim is great at matching people's life styles and personality with his dogs. If you get a chance to go down to Kim's it is worth the long drive. You can see first hand his place and the dogs. It is about a 5 hour drive for me. I did it one time in 3 hours, but then I was probably driving a bit faster than I should. Good luck! Lisa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Allison 2,369 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 It is about a 5 hour drive for me. I did it one time in 3 hours, but then I was probably driving a bit faster than I should. I had to chuckle at this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Welcome Dug, Where do you live in N.E. Oregon? We live in Monmouth, just a short 15 min. drive West of Salem. If your close we could ge together and you can meet my Hawk. He turned 6 on Christmas. My daughter also has an AID named Chief Joseph and he will be 3 in June and my sister has an AID too named Ma ii. I have had a number of different breeds in my life. If you decide you want an AID you have made the best decision. They are the most amazing dogs. Loyal,loving, ready to do anything you tell them. Kim is great at matching people's life styles and personality with his dogs. If you get a chance to go down to Kim's it is worth the long drive. You can see first hand his place and the dogs. It is about a 5 hour drive for me. I did it one time in 3 hours, but then I was probably driving a bit faster than I should. Good luck! Lisa ____ Thanks for sharing your thought Lisa as well as the invitation. I live in La Grande OR and would very much enjoy meeting Hawk. Do you know if there are any AI dogs closer to my side of the Cascades? Thanks again for your words... all very helpful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dug 0 Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Hi Doug. I can't answer all your questions, we're mostly city dwellers, but I have been able to teach my dogs, the difference between the birds I want to feed, and the ones I don't. They will let the Crows come in, but not allow the Starlings, or Gulls. I think that is pretty amazing that they can tell the difference. The other day a Great Blue Heron flew through the yard, while they were out, and they watched it, but did not bark. We have a rat problem. They chase the rats, but not the ground birds. It was easy to teach them the difference, but I did have to tell them what was okay to chase, and what wasn't. Our youngest, is very prey driven, and he has also quickly picked up the chasing animals, vs the leaving animals. I am very proud of him-both of them, for that. It was one of our "requests" from Kim, as we've spent a long time taming our neighborhood birds, and we did not want to lose them. Our youngest is just a year, and he will scare away the Blue Jays, if they land next to him, but he is getting better about that. Our oldest will stay still while they land and take nuts, right next to him. I have hopes that the younger will, also. Our Rancher/members do not get on line much. Busy life, I guess. However, I have heard wonderful things from them about how well their dogs have grown into the working dog they want and need. It makes me envy that life. I know mine would love more "work" to do, and revel in the feeling of a job well done. We camp every year. My older dog will stand stock still next to me, while a deer walks in front of us. He waits for my signal to "go". The younger, is still so excited, that he may take off after a creature, but again, we are working on that, we only work these few weeks a year, and I can see he is coming around. So I can imagine that daily exposure and routine would produce and excellent working dog. They accept whoever you say is in the pack--like our Parrot, or your pigs and goats. Anyone outside the pack is then treated differently. You listed all my favorite books. Can't add to that. ______ Thanks again Allison and everyone else who responded. I've been doing lots of reading on this site as well as others and it's all been very helpful. I'm ardently looking for land to start my farm up again out here in the Grande Ronde Valley. Hoping something will come early this spring. This dog I have in my head and heart is a personal symbol of a spirit of stewardship to the animals and land I will share life with on my farm. Needless to say... IT'S A BIG DEAL. And thus far, the AI dog sounds and feels like the right partner for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
miz molly 1,800 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 This dog I have in my head and heart is a personal symbol of a spirit of stewardship to the animals and land I will share life with on my farm. Sounds like the AID is already calling to you. Go with your gut. You can't go wrong with it. Good luck finding your ground. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Allison 2,369 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Here, here. Well said, Miz M. I am sometimes reluctant to get all spiritual (and so glad that others do), but partner is right. You've got the idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lisa 130 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 ____Thanks for sharing your thought Lisa as well as the invitation. I live in La Grande OR and would very much enjoy meeting Hawk. Do you know if there are any AI dogs closer to my side of the Cascades? Thanks again for your words... all very helpful. OMG! We use to live in La Grande. My hubby worked at Eastern and then he got a promotion here at Western. We left in 1989. Don't you just love it over there, so peacfull and quiet. I do not know of anyone closer to you, sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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