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Wyot Refusing To Eat- Tips?


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#1 KittynDoc

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 06:31 AM

Good morning all. Hope everyone is having a good Sunday.  Things at my house with Kitchee and Wyot are going well, routine is being established, BUT...Wyot refuses to eat his food!

 

Now, I never had two dogs before. I am assuming he will eventually go back to eating again. I am feeding the two of them in seperate areas- they each have their own space and their own bowls. I put down Alpha dog's food down first (Wyot), then I put down Kitchee's....little guy tears into his food, and Wyot won't touch his! It's almost like he feels "responsible" for Kitchee, and watches over him while he eats. As soon as Kitchee finishes, he sure knows how to go right to Wyot's food bowl, which of course, I take away. I try to give Wyot back his food when Kitchee passes out, but no dice. He just looks at me with these eyes....sigh..

 

I've given him his Kong, but he refuses to take it in another room, away from his little guy. If he settles with the Kong in the common area, Kitchee takes it away from him, and he lets him! I say no, and take it away. I'm learning too, but I figure it'll settle itself soon enough, but I have to say, as a dog mama, I worry about the food thing. He barely ate two cups of food in the last three and a half days. 

 

Any tips and advice is VERY welcome!!!

 

Thanks in advance!  :)  :blink:



#2 KittynDoc

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 06:37 AM

PS- crating or separating by a gate doesn't help either. I get the hang dog look from Wyot, and he just plops down and refuses to eat. 



#3 Sherab

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:32 AM

The rule of thumb I was given by a guy that places a lot of older dogs and pups in homes is 6 weeks. 2 weeks of honeymoon, 2 of storming and 2 of settling in. When we got Fenris, Waki hid under the bed for 2 weeks. Both he and Cake gave Fen the cold shoulder. Waki was super growly and puffy for the next 2 weeks. He basically instilled the fear of god into the pup while he was little and now that the pup towers over him the respect is in place. No one missed any meals. Cake also and she's the sweetest, most submissive dog we've ever had. I think they both sized him up - smells like a GSD, stubborn, big ego - better beat on him now so he's a good boy later (they sat on him, rolled him during play, snarled at him inside the house and also ignored him and it did calm and shape his initially "rude" behavior).

They size each other up, have their world turned up side down and work to figure out the new world order. Fasting can be a helpful thing for the body during stress. He may be managing his stress. Is he taking fluids? Can you get him to eat something more decadent and tempting, like a small bit of cooked chicken? His tummy may be upset from the stress. Could be a little rice and cooked chicken is in order for a week. I'd press on with separate feeding spaces for the first 6 weeks. Take up the food if Wyot doesn't eat it. Make sure you have at least 30 minutes each day (more if you are home based vs out in an office) doing something just you and him, like a walk or a trip to the petco or play time. Feel free to cover him in crackers at that time. Especially things you did with him before the pup. He needs to feel somewhat normal and that he's still a priority for your love and attention because the pup will otherwise be an attention black hole. Plus what ever the 2 boys like doing together do lots of that to cement their bonding and trust. If that's going for a walk or a car ride or playing in the yard, give them that. Waki and Cake were super with Fen in the fenced yard, but at the house - that was sacred and touchy for the first few months. Also Wyot may become Mr. Responsible, guarding and watching the environment to protect the pup. He's snack size for owls & Coyotes right now. Wyot may also try to help you when you correct the little guy. Cake and Waki placed themselves in front of some delicious electrical chords one time. It's ok to accept the help and also to tell Wyot "thanks but I got this." Which brings me to another point, talk to your dogs. It may feel odd but they actually understand or learn to understand a lot.

This is one area where your relationship with Wyot will help you read him and intuitively take steps to help. Kim once said that Dustee (a female @ song dog) was alpha because she was the most fair. I think that about sums up being a good alpha. As long as you are fair and enforce fairness your dogs will give your direction the benefit of the doubt. Good luck and keep posting.

Edited by Sherab, 18 February 2018 - 07:32 AM.


#4 KittynDoc

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:49 AM

Wow, thank you! I gotta say, I think Wyot IS guarding Kitchee almost all of the time! He watches while he does everything..

 

Wyot is drinking just fine, going and doing his business as is normal. We have time with just him as well. He took a ride to the town dump with daddy as usual. I took him out for a walk, just him and I. We do play with just him, but maybe not enough....our usual petting time for 5 minutes while having coffee in the morning is in place, as it always was. 

 

I left Kitchee in the kitchen just now, and placed my computer at my desk in the living room, which Wyot is only allowed in, since his territory widened once he was completely crate trained and potty trained, as well as less teething on every single thing (rugs, shoes, etc.). He is now contentedly eating from his Kong, while Kitchee is hanging and whining a bit, but I will leave that and let him learn. 

 

Great idea on giving Wyot easier foods for his belly. He did throw up the first day we brought Kitchee home, and it was some bile, too. I gave him simple oatmeal, which he gladly ate. He is definitely being the watchful, respectful older brother...but he does put Kitchee in his place when it is too much! He did the muzzle grab (gentle, not biting down, just making sure he KNEW who was in charge). They tussle and tumble just great, both of them with tail wagging. Wyot has been off leash, and responds wonderfully well, so I don't worry when I take both of them out. Kitchee is on a leash right now, while I teach him to go potty outside, so he doesn't run after big brother and focuses on the task at hand. 

 

I think it is good to cross over to the other side, so to speak, where Kitchee is not allowed right now, until he is completely trained. It took us until Wyot was 6 months, to forego the crate, and let him into the living room...he slept wherever he felt like it, and was free. It is amazing how well he adapted, and how much he respects things he knows he shouldn't touch! If a ball lands on something he knows not to touch, he backs off and looks at me to go get it. I am hoping Kitchee will be much the same. 

Ok...so I will take in the 6 weeks of this whole process. Thanks as always for the excellent suggestions!



#5 miz molly

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:12 AM

If you add water to his food, you might try a bit of water and chicken broth mix. The change up works wonders for my guys when they get picky. When I feed my pups, I make them sit first. When I give them a special meal, like a bit of left over home made soup, I'll talk to them about "thankfulness" and then give the "O.K." to eat. When they are all done, they check out each others bowl, and lick the sides yet again. Those bowls are spotless. Life is good.
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#6 KittynDoc

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:51 AM

If you add water to his food, you might try a bit of water and chicken broth mix. The change up works wonders for my guys when they get picky. When I feed my pups, I make them sit first. When I give them a special meal, like a bit of left over home made soup, I'll talk to them about "thankfulness" and then give the "O.K." to eat. When they are all done, they check out each others bowl, and lick the sides yet again. Those bowls are spotless. Life is good.

Funny you should mention that they check each other's bowls, then lick...that's what these guys do! I make each of them sit before they get food- and Kitchee is getting it slowly. Wyot doesn't even need me to say it in words- his bowls stays with me until his butt is on the ground, and he goes only when I give the command to "go eat".

 

Like the chicken broth idea.... :)



#7 KittynDoc

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:56 AM

Ok, so for today, and since Miz Molly's advice was quicker to make at this point in time, I added a bit of water with a TBSP of freeze dried food, and he scarfed his food down, licking his chops! I had hubby take out Kitchee, so he wouldn't have a little furball buzzing around him trying to steal his food! Thank you so much for the tip- for now, it worked. I will also see if I can make some rice with chicken as Sherab suggested for a bit to his regular food to settle him a bit. 



#8 sschenck

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:27 PM

When I got my puppy Jesse, my first dog, Kai, was sulky and pouty. We drove to Songdog with Kai and stayed in a hotel. The day we got Jesse, Kai became withdrawn and would barely communicate with us… wherever we were in the hotel room he was away, wouldn't even look at us. It felt horrible. The ride home (all 800+ miles) he stayed as far from Jesse as he could be. It took just a couple days being home for Kai to accept the new addition and slowly but surely he warmed to him. Now they are absolutely bonded and Kai is definitely his "nanny". He is always watching over Jesse. I believe that these dogs are so naturally sensitive that a new family member is taken seriously and deeply. The sensitivity is one of their traits I love most.

#9 KittynDoc

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:55 PM

When I got my puppy Jesse, my first dog, Kai, was sulky and pouty. We drove to Songdog with Kai and stayed in a hotel. The day we got Jesse, Kai became withdrawn and would barely communicate with us… wherever we were in the hotel room he was away, wouldn't even look at us. It felt horrible. The ride home (all 800+ miles) he stayed as far from Jesse as he could be. It took just a couple days being home for Kai to accept the new addition and slowly but surely he warmed to him. Now they are absolutely bonded and Kai is definitely his "nanny". He is always watching over Jesse. I believe that these dogs are so naturally sensitive that a new family member is taken seriously and deeply. The sensitivity is one of their traits I love most.

Thank you for sharing! Yes, they really are sensitive...I cannot believe how much Wyot watches over Kitchee! We just went for a walk, and when he was going down a ravine, he chased and herded him back towards us. Maybe it's a honeymoon phase, but, wow! Time will tell. I absolutely just love these two so much!!



#10 Sherab

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 03:09 PM

If Grandma or a trusted friend can take the pup over night in the third or fourth week or for a few hours in the day, not only is that a wonderful socialization option for the baby puppy, but that absence definitely makes the heart of the older dog grow fonder in my experience.

Just tell Wyot it's ok to feel what he feels. Once they get over the moods they give their hearts fully. Papa Waki still protects this giant 5 month old pup from perceived dangers and spends a lot of time licking and comforting Fenris (Fen is having the worst teething experience - his baby teeth were massive and he bleeds a lot when the teeth come out). Wyot and Kitchee will be working our their relationship over the next 12-18 months as Kitchee grows. Kitchee may or may not test for alpha position. Just something to be mindful of. Waki is ceding alpha to Fen already. He seems relieved.

Edited by Sherab, 18 February 2018 - 03:10 PM.


#11 KittynDoc

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:42 PM

If Grandma or a trusted friend can take the pup over night in the third or fourth week or for a few hours in the day, not only is that a wonderful socialization option for the baby puppy, but that absence definitely makes the heart of the older dog grow fonder in my experience.

Just tell Wyot it's ok to feel what he feels. Once they get over the moods they give their hearts fully. Papa Waki still protects this giant 5 month old pup from perceived dangers and spends a lot of time licking and comforting Fenris (Fen is having the worst teething experience - his baby teeth were massive and he bleeds a lot when the teeth come out). Wyot and Kitchee will be working our their relationship over the next 12-18 months as Kitchee grows. Kitchee may or may not test for alpha position. Just something to be mindful of. Waki is ceding alpha to Fen already. He seems relieved.

What a wonderful idea! I do have NO shortage of people who would love to take Kitchee in for a night... I instinctively tell Wyot it's ok...and he knows it. We went out tonight and took Kitchee with us, and told Wyot to watch the house, be a good boy, like we always told him to do when we left. I was a bit nervous, but also confident that he'd be ok...and lo and behold, we got the same song and dance of being happy to see us! Of course, I opened up the living room to him, which he sorely misses unless I am in it with him...so he got a bit of his own place that Kitchee is not allowed into. All is well, gratefully. We shall see what  happens with who is alpha, as Kitchee has no problem letting Wyot know that HE is here, and this is how it will be...he barked at Wyot tonight (playfully, which was a riot!), and Wyot took it in stride. 

 

Thanks for all the input...it is SO appreciated!!!



#12 miz molly

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:57 AM

Watching them grow into "alpha" is really interesting. The experience that I have had with my three is they have chosen their own jobs and in which they assume "alpha position." As a pack, interestingly enough, Two Step has assumed this position where in the beginning it was definitely Tolinka. The cause......This last summer Tolinka had a seizure due to heat, we think. Ever since then, Two Step has assumed the "alpha" position in the pack. Tolinka is fine, but the shift in the pack has remained.
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir




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