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I've Been Researching Indian Dogs For About A Year, And I'm Ready. :)


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#1 taylorRichie

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 08:58 AM

Hello everyone, I'm a new poster, but I've been lurking for a while.

I first became interested in the American Indian dogs when I found the "North American Indian Dog" The more research I did, and conflicting information I found, I was a bit turned off, and stumbled upon the American Indian Dogs. About a year ago I wanted to get my Bender a Playmate, unfortunately he passed away on Thanksgiving, due to bloat :( You can read about it here: Taylor Blog

Brittany and I have an active lifestyle, with Running, BIking, camping, etc. Is a trained AID a good Off leash, companion?

My dog Bender always lived in the house. I let him out in the morning, then fed him, then he hung out in the house until I was home from work, then we went for a walk. Would the AIDs be better suited outside to play while I was at work? Bender being a slick short coated dog didn't do well in the cold so I never left him outside while I wasn't home. The AID would probably be a good dog to let play with the neighbors (outside) dogs during the day.

I've been going through the Song Dog Kennels site for the past few days reading and reading. I can find a Sales agreement, and terms, but not information on how often they're bred, or any upcoming liters etc. I would love to come and tour their facility, and meet a few Indian Dogs to ensure they're everything they seem to be :)

Also is Song Dog the only "True" breeder of the American Indian Dog? It's easy to tell the difference between an NAID, SID, and a true AID, but want to make sure I'm helping the cause by going through the right channels.

Thank you in advance for any information you can give me. I very much look forward to hearing back. I'm very excited.

Sincerely,

Richie Taylor

#2 Gavin

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 01:55 PM

Hi Richie-
My Indian Dogs are EXCELLENT hiking and camping dogs. They carry their own packs and they can be off leash for days on end. In the backcountry, they even sleep outside the tent and I do not worry about them at all. They, unlike huskies or many other good working dogs, will NOT leave the "pack" for more than a few minutes. If I ever do not see them, I whistle or call out, they appear in seconds. They are really great! They think backpacking is just a 7-day dog walk.

In town it is a lot harder: squirrels, bikes, pedestrians, cats, cars...all beg to be chased. They are good jogging buddies on leash, however.

At minimum, I give my dogs about 20 minutes of hard playing ball in the morning and another 20 minutes in the evening. They are happier with more, but they can live with that as long as they get more hard exercise every few days. (doggy day-care, hike, swimming in the river, trip to the dog park, or play-date with a friend.)

I have a 5'x8' chain link dog kennel in the garage that my dogs stay in while I am at work. They are out of the house and unable to chew up shoes, furniture, toilet paper, rugs, etc...but they have enough space to move around and play with each other. They each have big snuggly beds to curl up in when it's cold. When it's REALLY cold, I turn on a heat lamp over the kennel. Left outside alone, they tend to get bored and bark and/or dig.

Welcome to the forum!
-Gavin

Edited by Gavin, 06 December 2008 - 01:55 PM.


#3 taylorRichie

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 03:39 PM

Thanks Gavin!

They sound like an amazing breed. I have a fenced yard, and trail access out the back as well. I would prefer to have a dog who could keep himself entertained (sounds like outside in this case) while I'm not at home, and then could be an inside dog anytime I'm home and inside. A dog that can relax (after sufficiently exercised) and sleep with us at night, either at the foot of the bed, or with us.

The hardest part I'm finding with the Indian dogs is, where to get one? I can find know breeding schedules, and only one Breeder (Song Dogs) which I've read his story, and it's absolutely fascinating. I'm assuming they're bred based on demand and not on a schedule. I've emailed song dogs and hope to hear back soon.

Thanks again for your response!

Richie

#4 Karen

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 07:44 PM

At one year old our AID is fine in the house. She has company, our older, mellow mixed-breed dog. I don't know how 'entertained' they keep each other; for all I know they sleep all day, but then they might be waltzing just as easily. Maybe I need a nanny cam. I do make sure she doesn't have too much pent-up energy, though. She gets three walks a day, a good 20 to forty min. session of Chukkit a day, and a couple of trips a week to a huge dog park that includes a swim in the river and a solid hour and a half of running. And if I had the time, she'd go for way more exercise than that. I still don't trust her off-leash too much even out in the woods where we live unless I have a tennis ball in my hand. She is a slave to the tennis ball! I do trust that she's going to slowly get better about that, though...she already is. But, she is great at the dog park, come to think of it. I had to train her to sit when we were playing so I could approach her and clip her leash on when it was time to go, though. I acutally had to train her to let me touch her when we were playing outside!

I hope you get yours soon. Mine is a ton of fun. She is a hoot.

Karen
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#5 judyk

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 09:03 PM

At one year old our AID is fine in the house. She has company, our older, mellow mixed-breed dog. I don't know how 'entertained' they keep each other; for all I know they sleep all day, but then they might be waltzing just as easily. Maybe I need a nanny cam. I do make sure she doesn't have too much pent-up energy, though. She gets three walks a day, a good 20 to forty min. session of Chukkit a day, and a couple of trips a week to a huge dog park that includes a swim in the river and a solid hour and a half of running. And if I had the time, she'd go for way more exercise than that. I still don't trust her off-leash too much even out in the woods where we live unless I have a tennis ball in my hand. She is a slave to the tennis ball! I do trust that she's going to slowly get better about that, though...she already is. But, she is great at the dog park, come to think of it. I had to train her to sit when we were playing so I could approach her and clip her leash on when it was time to go, though. I acutally had to train her to let me touch her when we were playing outside!

I hope you get yours soon. Mine is a ton of fun. She is a hoot.

Karen


Hi and welcome!

My husband and I have had FIVE of this amazing breed. Having said that, I can't think of another breed we would ever have. We just drove out to Oregon from Michigan in August to pick up our fifth one. She's five months old now. Each of the dogs have their own unique personalities. I have to agee that off leash out in the woods where we are is way too tempting for them to dismiss our commands - we have deer, squirrels, fox, coyotes and many other critters so it's for their own safety plus where we are on the streets or in public the dogs must be leashed by village ordinance.

The best and only person to talk to is Kim LaFlamme - he is our 'headmaster' and savior of this breed. You don't want a North American Indian Dog - they are not true indian dogs. Kim will answer any and all questions you have - after all, they are all his dogs he just lets us enjoy the experience of having them with us. Ours are walked three miles in the morning and five miles at night - every day - rain or shine - we're like the postman!! They are wonderful with children, very gentle. Ours live with us, sleep with us, go wherever it is we're going. Our motto is if the dogs aren't welcome, we don't go!!

While they are wonderful pets they are not for everyone. Kim will talk with you about all of that though. If you do decide on this amazing breed, you will not be disappointed only amazed at how smart they are, how quick they grow and learn and how they will test you if you let them - kind of like having a four legged child.

Judy K in Michigan

P.S. Wouldn't suggest leaving them alone in a fenced yard - they can climb out or get bored and dig or bark. But that's only my opinion and it is from experience!!

Edited by judyk, 06 December 2008 - 09:04 PM.

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Judy in Michigan

#6 Karen

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 11:57 PM

we have deer, squirrels, fox, coyotes and many other critters

Hey....that must be why she's OK at the dog park but not in the woods! There are NO critters at the dog park but dogs. For obvious reasons. Except for the great blue heron, which I have here, too. I've heard there are bunnies, though. They must be awfully quick bunnies.

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#7 Tim

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 12:51 AM

Just to put in my two cents worth...

I have owned four American Indian Dogs (AID) and currently have three AIDs (one died). My cousin (who lives down the road from me) has several also. It is great times to get together and watch them all interact and work together. Once you have one you always want another. They are a great pack animal both with the other dogs and with the family pack.

These dogs are distinctly different from any other breed I've owned and yet each dog has its own personality that is very different from another AID. You have definitely taken the best step in e-mailing Song Dog Kennels. You will want to talk to Kim and he will not only give you the best information about these dogs but will also know what kind of personality dog will be right for you after he has talked to you. I've not met a breeder who knows his dogs and puppies as well as he does. Of course if you can, go visit him and see his dogs in person also.

These dogs make very good indoor or outdoor dogs. They are comfortable in most outdoor weather but also love to be with their masters indoors.

They tend to be territorial dogs and tend to learn their territory and stay around home (although I would not recommend them wondering unconfined if you live in the city or near a road). As someone else mentioned, most fences won't contain them, if they decide they want out, so I wouldn't leave them in a normal fenced yard if leaving the house. A lot of times if they get out, they come looking for you (depending on its personality and attachment) but still not best to have them wondering around.

These dogs are very smart and has what Kim calls the "survival instinct". They are very cautious of new things but with proper exposure and maturity will be fine in most any circumstance. I would say, in my experience, all but one of my four dogs are very trustworthy off leash (although I wouldn't do that in town or near a road). It mostly depends on how you raise and train them.

As far as a breeding schedule, Kim usually has a waiting list of people that want the dogs, so it is mostly done on demand. He doesn't breed like a puppy mill just to get rid of dogs. He wants them going to good homes who will take good care of them and who are interested in learning this breed and what makes it special.

I could go on but talk to Kim. If he doesn't write back soon, give him a call.

#8 Todd

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 06:05 AM

I'm waiting to get our first AID also. Here's what I know. Three pups were born late October and Dream Catcher is pregnant and should throw pups in January! Hopefully we will get one from that litter. Jay Silverheels is the sire for both litters.

Good luck and maybe we will have litter mates!!!

Todd
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#9 taylorRichie

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 11:15 AM

Just spent about an Hour on the phone with Kim. I'm glad I called. He is an extremely nice guy and reassured my choice to get an american indian dog. They seem like everything anyone could want in a dog.

He gave me the names and contact of a few owners nearby that I can call and possibly meet with. I'm also planning to visit Song Dog Kennels this holiday season.

Looks like right now isn't an ideal time to get a pup, but I'll be patient. He has one liter that should be due in about ~25 days, but the dam doesn't appear very pregnant so it may be a small liter, and there are about 9 on the list (If I recall correctly) So until that liter is full term he won't know when to proceed with another.

About 4 months ago he had an opposite situation with a surplus of puppies. He ended up donating them.

I'm guessing It'll be ~May before I'm able to take home my new companion. 4-5 months isn't that long to wait considering it's a ~15 year commitment :) And I think I'll get on the list for a second when I pick up the first. He recommended against raising two simultaneous as It would be difficult to give each one the attention they require.

Thanks for your help everyone!!!

I'm very excited.

Richie

#10 liz

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:13 AM

Just spent about an Hour on the phone with Kim. I'm glad I called. He is an extremely nice guy and reassured my choice to get an american indian dog. They seem like everything anyone could want in a dog.

He gave me the names and contact of a few owners nearby that I can call and possibly meet with. I'm also planning to visit Song Dog Kennels this holiday season.

Looks like right now isn't an ideal time to get a pup, but I'll be patient. He has one liter that should be due in about ~25 days, but the dam doesn't appear very pregnant so it may be a small liter, and there are about 9 on the list (If I recall correctly) So until that liter is full term he won't know when to proceed with another.

About 4 months ago he had an opposite situation with a surplus of puppies. He ended up donating them.

I'm guessing It'll be ~May before I'm able to take home my new companion. 4-5 months isn't that long to wait considering it's a ~15 year commitment :) And I think I'll get on the list for a second when I pick up the first. He recommended against raising two simultaneous as It would be difficult to give each one the attention they require.

Thanks for your help everyone!!!

I'm very excited.

Richie


I don't think you will ever regret going down this road Richie, I would never want another kind of dog, Shunka is 10 and I can trust hm most places, we also won't go anywhere he is not welcome.

He is left indoors occasionally, we just make sure that there are no plastic shopping bags containing anything, he has to investigate, and never leave magazines or papers on the floor as they get investigated too!

Never had trouble with him chewing things he shouldn't, when he was teething always gave him things he could chew, never old shoes or slippers though, how do they know what it new or not!

He gets on well with our cat, who goes for walks with him, he is a dominant dog, and is particular not to let strange dogs too close unless he is sure they are ok. He has lots of dog friends in the village though, but some he doesn't like. so what's different to humans that way?

They must know their place in the pack though. and make sure it isn't at the top!

So good luck in your quest

#11 Newc

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:00 AM

Welcome.
Everyone has posted some excellent comments for you. Hopefully you'll have a chance to meet an AIDog in person soon. Try to visit Kim's place if you can. I'm glad I did, I just wish I could have stayed at the kennel longer.
My dog spends 90% of her life outside, and she seems to prefer it that way. As mentioned, a fence alone will not contain these escape artists. If they want out of the yard... they're gettin' out! My only insurance that my pup stays within her bounds is with a wireless electric fence. If I didn't have that... she would be in an enclosure when unsupervised, because she WILL go exploring if not confined by some means.
The Ontario Humane Society has a recommended dog house design for cold-weather climates. I built one to my dog's measurements and it works great. This morning it was 36 degrees and when I reached in to pet her b4 work... she was nice and toasty warm.
Good luck w/ your AIDog quest.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." - Unknown

#12 Karen

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:02 PM

He is left indoors occasionally, we just make sure that there are no plastic shopping bags containing anything, he has to investigate, and never leave magazines or papers on the floor as they get investigated too!

Ha....I've never thought of what Danza does to paper as "investigating" it! But, Amen to not leaving it lying around!

Karen
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#13 Newc

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:45 PM

Ha....I've never thought of what Danza does to paper as "investigating" it! But, Amen to not leaving it lying around!

Karen


Happy b-day to your pup Karen!
I took Niki in for her bordetella this Saturday and she's at 40.5 lbs. She'll be 1 year on Dec 19th (times flies).
What's Danza's weight now?
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." - Unknown

#14 Gavin

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:40 PM

Ha....I've never thought of what Danza does to paper as "investigating" it! But, Amen to not leaving it lying around!


Hehe...we call them our little bio-shredding machines.
Scrap paper, magazines...and Sterling is worse than a cat when it comes to the cruel and unusual treatment of toilet paper.
When I was taking the puppy to work, we considered making her part of our company "Green Initiative" as the "zero-emissions bio-shredder," but then we had to consider the methane...
-G

#15 Allison

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:52 PM

Hey there, we live in a very urban environment, and my dog stays inside, while we are away. He has never bothered anything, after that one shoe.....

He sleeps while I'm away, and guards the house.

I see, by looking through this thread, that all dogs fit their environment. Be sure to tell Kim what you need and want. That is the best way to get the right dog for you. He is a genius at picking the right dog for the each person.

When I met my dog, and his brother, Kim predicted their very different personalities to a tee.

The crazy thing is, when we all get together, for one of our Gatherings, the dogs--even though they are so different in appearance, know one another as part of the same tribe. It always blows my mind--no fights, or worries, it is always a homecoming.

We look forward to talking with you and meeting your pup(s).
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

--David Dunning

#16 Karen

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:23 PM

Happy b-day to your pup Karen!
I took Niki in for her bordetella this Saturday and she's at 40.5 lbs. She'll be 1 year on Dec 19th (times flies).
What's Danza's weight now?

I haven't made her appointment yet, but she's no forty pounds! It's Tiny Danza. :)
Karen
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#17 Allison

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 04:24 PM

Yes! Happy Birthday to the pups! I love those little ones. Coydo was small, and so very cool. Very slinky, like a fox. Huge personality. I daresay Danza has already exhibited similar characteristics.

Does she still use her den?
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

--David Dunning

#18 Karen

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 08:37 PM

Yes! Happy Birthday to the pups! I love those little ones. Coydo was small, and so very cool. Very slinky, like a fox. Huge personality. I daresay Danza has already exhibited similar characteristics.

Does she still use her den?

Well, I seem to have ruined Danzaland, or the outside where her den (Denza) is, by training her to not bark. She is not nearly as keen to go out there as she used to be. But she still goes out there, and we see her in and on the stump where she dug her den from time to time. Wild huckleberries grow from the stump and our son raids the bush, which excites her. She likes having the company on the stump!
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#19 Allison

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 08:54 AM

The whole pack at the den; she sounds very happy. Coyo would forget about his den for a while, and then suddenly he's back there, cleaning it out.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

--David Dunning




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