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#1 Chickasaw 5-OH

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:55 PM

I have read some commercial dog food producers use euthanized cats and dogs from animal control and SPCA centers to make their dog food. I also read these same manufacturers do not remove the garbage bags, name tags and collars on said animals before turning them into kibble. I do not know with any certainty which food manufacturers these are, and it concerns me. I want to feed my dog heathy food, not garbage bags and dead pets. I was told by the SPCA in my area that Iams is the food of choice. But I am leery of their suggestion only because I don't know if they receive "donations" or "support" from Iams in return for suggesting we use their food. I have also used Beneful. Yeah this all does sound a little conspiracy theorist but I know the ethics of our country are seriously questionable, especially when money is involved. Does anyone here have any knowledge of what I am talking about? What do you feed your AID?

#2 judyk

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:14 PM

I have read some commercial dog food producers use euthanized cats and dogs from animal control and SPCA centers to make their dog food. I also read these same manufacturers do not remove the garbage bags, name tags and collars on said animals before turning them into kibble. I do not know with any certainty which food manufacturers these are, and it concerns me. I want to feed my dog heathy food, not garbage bags and dead pets. I was told by the SPCA in my area that Iams is the food of choice. But I am leery of their suggestion only because I don't know if they receive "donations" or "support" from Iams in return for suggesting we use their food. I have also used Beneful. Yeah this all does sound a little conspiracy theorist but I know the ethics of our country are seriously questionable, especially when money is involved. Does anyone here have any knowledge of what I am talking about? What do you feed your AID?

We feed our dogs IAMS and have never had a problem. Ours didn't like the beneful - each pup is different. I doubt a store is going to receive kickbacks from suggesting a particular brand. It will probably be trial and error as to what your particular dog will eat.
Judy K
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#3 Allison

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:38 PM

Yikes! That sounds gruesome. Isn't that how Prions, or mad cow disease gets going, feeding an animal it's relatives?

We use Canidae Kibble, no grain, for all life stages, and we also feed raw meat and veggies.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#4 Chickasaw 5-OH

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:45 PM

I just got done googling different dog food information and a dog nutritian consultant was listing off all the bad ingrediants in beneful. Here, read this.

"YES, Beneful falls in to the category of unhealthiest pet foods on the market. I have listed the ingredients of the Adult Formual below and I want to highlight a couple of things for you.

Beneful Adult:

-Ground yellow corn (should NEVER be in pet foods, cheap filler that dogs cannot digest)
-chicken-by-product meal (should NEVER be in pet foods, these are the feet, feathers, beaks, organs of dead, diseased or other chickens unfit for human consumption)
-corn gluten meal(shoule NEVEr be in pet foods, this is simply the residue left after corn has been processed for other things)
-whole wheat flour (should not be used as wheat is one of the most common allergens for dogs and provides no nutrition)
-beef tallow (this is beef fat, which offers not nutritional value as most dogs do not digest beef and the fat is not the proper type to make their coats shiny)
-rice flour (should be the whole grain, not just the flour)
-beef (dogs do not digest this very well)
-soy flour(another common allergen for dogs)

This food does not have any meat in it except a tiny portion of beef which the dog can probably not even taste. This food is both disgusting and a great example of Purina prodcing cheap foods just to try and make a profit.

Compare that to Innova which is the HEALTHIEST pet food currently on the market.

-Turkey (good)
-Chicken (good)
-Chicken Meal (great)
-Ground Barley (good)
-Ground Brown Rice (great)
-Potatoes (good)
-Natural Flavors (good)
-Ground White Rice (good)
-Chicken Fat (okay)
-Herring (good)
-Apples (great)
-Carrots (great)
-Cottage Cheese (good)
-Sunflower Oil (good)
-Alfalfa Sprouts (great)
-Egg (excellent)

I don't think I really need to say much to convince you that Innova is obviously a superior food and provides your dog with ingredients from all five food groups while using whole fresh, human grade products.

You will NOT find a holistic, high quality pet food at any Vet or grocery/department store. You need to go to a pet speciality store and find ingredients similar to those in Innova.

You would be amazed at the difference in you dog if you switched to a better food. they will have more energy, less trips to the vet, shiner/healthier coat, less "waste", live longer, and so much more.

DON"T be fooled by all of the big companies and vets out their pushing the "popular" brands of foods. Use common sense - if you wouldn't eat it, why force it on your pet?

good luck!!
Source(s):
I am a pet nutrition consultant."

I am really not trying to be uber paranoid, and I have never given it much thought before and now that I am looking into it I am not liking what I am finding. It's like thinking everything is all hunky dorey and then finding out people are shooting wolves from the sky by the thousands. The deeper you look the worse it is. Anyway, I just find all this interesting at minimum.

#5 Starghoti

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:10 PM

DON"T be fooled by all of the big companies and vets out their pushing the "popular" brands of foods. Use common sense - if you wouldn't eat it, why force it on your pet?


L0L0L- and the hubby thought I was paranoid. I won't feed anything to my dog/s that I am not willing to eat a bowl of myself. I am a compulsive label-reader...
Mina's breakfast this morning consisted of: 1 large raw chicken thigh (with skin), half a cup cooked whole-grain/brown rice, 1 large collard leaf, some carrot and apple pulp from the juicer this morning, 1 farm fresh egg, a quarter t SeaMeal and digestive enzyme supplements.
Dinner will be Natural Balance Potatoe/Duck kibbie.
No she's not spoiled, and at over 10yrs old, her teeth are nearly white :D
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#6 Allison

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:35 PM

No she's not spoiled, and at over 10yrs old, her teeth are nearly white :D


Good point. When I started feeding raw (meat and veggies), there was a clear difference in their teeth.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#7 Chickasaw 5-OH

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:37 PM

Ok guys, in the pursuit of knowledge I continued my journey to find out what dogs should eat and what they should not. I found a list on Webmd that expained what is bad for your dog and why and some better alternatives. I did this because I like to be informed and educated. I am sharing with the group because I think it is important to share my findings with anyone who is interested. I am just putting it out there and what you do with it is up to you as individuals.

It was scary to say the least. I had no idea so many things were bad for dogs. I am wondering if it is kind of the same way they say fast food will kill you, but everyone eats it anyway or if it is the real chiz (if you have kids that watch iCarly they can tell you what chiz is :) ). Some of them of course are no brainers like chocolate and alcohol.

I thought I was bording on nut job as I continued on my quest to gain knowledge, but when I shared my findings with my husband he agreed it was good information to have and he encouraged me to share. I will post just the items summarize because it is lengthy. If I was to put it all here it would probably require additional posts. It also gives the number for poison control. If you want to read the whole thing you can try to find it through webmd or google or you can email me at lorie_gomes83@yahoo.com and I will copy and paste the whole article for you.

Allison- When I told my husband about what I found, he said they used to do the same thing with livestock feed and it created mad cow disease. So yes, you are probably right.

Starghoti- I am soooooo glad I am not alone in my crazy. You should definately read this because it talks about raw meats and fish.

Judyk- As always you are tons of help. Thank you. I have read reviews that said Iams is good food as far as the commercial ones go.

Here is the summary:
NO NO's

Avocado
Alcohol
Onions
Coffee, Tea and other caffeine
Grapes and Raisins
Milk and other Dairy Products
Macadamia Nuts and other nuts
Candy, Gum, Toothpaste, baked goods
Fat Trimmings and Bones
Persimmons, Peaches and Plums
Raw Eggs
Raw Meat and Fish
Salt
Surgary Foods and drinks
Yeast Dough
People Medicine
Kitchen Pantry items-baking powder/soda, nutmeg

Better Alternatives:

Lean Meats- cooked
Fresh Fruits
Vegetables
Cooked White Rice and Pasta

Hope that was helpful to someone besides me. :D

#8 maria

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 03:44 AM

Chickasaw 5-OH,

I had a bad experience with dog food with my Yellow Lab and she already had digestive and stomach issues....my sister did with her dog also and we began to search we found Mariana's web site and she has been VERY helpful...very informative, hope it is helpful to you! And what you said as far as the garbage bags, collars, name tags etc. read in the below web site click on Learning and then Introduction, also click on Food for Thought and It's in the Bag. This talks about what you said.....ugh...unbelievable how they can do that to dog food. No wonder cats and dogs are having so much trouble with their health!!!

www.naturalrearing.com/coda/index.html

I feed Chhaya mostly meat, veggies and a little Innova, also some supplements (which I purchase through Natural Rearing) and herbs.
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

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#9 Starghoti

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 04:53 AM

Here are a couple of my sources (and I am a Raw mean proponent)

http://www.seefido.c..._barf_diets.htm

http://www.rawlearning.com/

And like most topics with people investing their hearts, there are many camps- many long term experiences, so I believe that whatever works best for the dog is the best method for the dog. :)

I know Mina is thriving on the half raw diet, and her teeth are sparkling and her breath no longer clears rooms.. (sorry kiddo, it WAS bad!) Dry kibble and chew bones was not doing it for her, and this was on the recommendation of our vet, and we are pleased it is working well for her.

Edited by Starghoti, 10 July 2010 - 04:54 AM.

"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#10 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:37 AM

Soul has been on Innova puppy chow for large dogs since we got him home. We are keeping him on it until he turns 2 or starts to gain weight - with his metablolism, it works! He doesn't eat much of it a day (2.5 cups) and it seems to work for him. Hard to find, but made in the USA and all natural. He loves it!

He also gets carrots, chicken, rice, turkey, and (organic) beef each week. We tried RAW but he's spoiled! Bwahahaha...
"Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" - Unknown

#11 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:44 AM

There are a few things on here that are not correct, per say. Soul loves onion soup poured over his food (not a lot and watered down), fat trimmings from steak and raw eggs. The balance is...not a lot of it! The RAW diet is great for dogs who are elderly and/or need more nutrition. We fed it to our OSA cancer pup, Meekos, with supplements and he did well on it. Ask 100 people, you'll get 100 different responses. My advice, speak with your vet (see if you can find one who is more holistic) and heed all suggestions here! :-)


Ok guys, in the pursuit of knowledge I continued my journey to find out what dogs should eat and what they should not. I found a list on Webmd that expained what is bad for your dog and why and some better alternatives. I did this because I like to be informed and educated. I am sharing with the group because I think it is important to share my findings with anyone who is interested. I am just putting it out there and what you do with it is up to you as individuals.

It was scary to say the least. I had no idea so many things were bad for dogs. I am wondering if it is kind of the same way they say fast food will kill you, but everyone eats it anyway or if it is the real chiz (if you have kids that watch iCarly they can tell you what chiz is :) ). Some of them of course are no brainers like chocolate and alcohol.

I thought I was bording on nut job as I continued on my quest to gain knowledge, but when I shared my findings with my husband he agreed it was good information to have and he encouraged me to share. I will post just the items summarize because it is lengthy. If I was to put it all here it would probably require additional posts. It also gives the number for poison control. If you want to read the whole thing you can try to find it through webmd or google or you can email me at lorie_gomes83@yahoo.com and I will copy and paste the whole article for you.

Allison- When I told my husband about what I found, he said they used to do the same thing with livestock feed and it created mad cow disease. So yes, you are probably right.

Starghoti- I am soooooo glad I am not alone in my crazy. You should definately read this because it talks about raw meats and fish.

Judyk- As always you are tons of help. Thank you. I have read reviews that said Iams is good food as far as the commercial ones go.

Here is the summary:
NO NO's

Avocado
Alcohol
Onions
Coffee, Tea and other caffeine
Grapes and Raisins
Milk and other Dairy Products
Macadamia Nuts and other nuts
Candy, Gum, Toothpaste, baked goods
Fat Trimmings and Bones
Persimmons, Peaches and Plums
Raw Eggs
Raw Meat and Fish
Salt
Surgary Foods and drinks
Yeast Dough
People Medicine
Kitchen Pantry items-baking powder/soda, nutmeg

Better Alternatives:

Lean Meats- cooked
Fresh Fruits
Vegetables
Cooked White Rice and Pasta

Hope that was helpful to someone besides me. :D


"Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" - Unknown

#12 Chickasaw 5-OH

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 01:12 PM

[quote name='Starghoti' date='Jul 10 2010, 05:53 AM' post='13438']
Here are a couple of my sources (and I am a Raw mean proponent)

[url="http://www.seefido.com/html/your_pet_and_barf_diets.htm"]http://www.seefido.c..._barf_diets.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.rawlearning.com/"]http://www.rawlearning.com/[/url]

I watched the video on rawlearning.com. I can't believe that. It's just not anything I had ever been exposed to before ya know. I grew up feeding my pets regular store pet food. Seeing people just toss out a raw carcass is just shocking to me. Thank you for sending that. It was awesome! Both sites were very educational.

Debi- You are totally right about "ask 100 people and get 100 answers". It seems to me to be very similar to humans and the big vegitarian vs vegan vs fast food debates. I just take it all in and keep it in mind.

The Pet.Webmd thing was saying the concern over using raw meat was specific to issues with bacteria that causes food poisoning and parasites that cause "fish disease" which is fatal if left untreated. As for the onions and fat trimmings and bones, this is what it said,

Onions
Onion in all forms - powdered, raw, cooked, or dehydrated - can destroy a dog's red blood cells, leading to anemia. That can happen even with the onion powder found in some baby food. An occasional small dose is probably OK. But just eating a large quantity once or eating smaller amounts regularly can cause onion poisoning. Symptoms include vomiting, diarrhea, little interest in food, dullness, and breathlessness.

And...

Fat Trimmings and Bones
Table scraps often contain meat fat that a human didn't eat and bones. Both are dangerous for dogs. Fat trimmed from meat, both cooked and uncooked, can cause pancreatitis in dogs. And, although it seems natural to give a dog a bone, a dog can choke on it. Bones can also splinter and cause an obstruction or lacerations of your dog's digestive system. It's best to just forget about the doggie bag.

But hey, raw meat and bones could be the best thing for the dogs. I don't really know. This goes back to the 100 people and their schools of thought. If you (anyone reading this) know what you are doing is working and your dog is happy and healthy, then rock on! :D

As usual I appreciate the responses and the links. You guys are awesome. I am glad none of you are taking my fact finding mission as an attack against your ways of life. Ya know, if I took my own eating as seriously as I am with the dog food I would be the healthiest person on the whole planet!!! But no. I like my Pizza and Taco Bell. :) Go figure.

#13 Chickasaw 5-OH

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 01:52 PM

Chickasaw 5-OH,

I had a bad experience with dog food with my Yellow Lab and she already had digestive and stomach issues....my sister did with her dog also and we began to search we found Mariana's web site and she has been VERY helpful...very informative, hope it is helpful to you! And what you said as far as the garbage bags, collars, name tags etc. read in the below web site click on Learning and then Introduction, also click on Food for Thought and It's in the Bag. This talks about what you said.....ugh...unbelievable how they can do that to dog food. No wonder cats and dogs are having so much trouble with their health!!!

www.naturalrearing.com/coda/index.html

I feed Chhaya mostly meat, veggies and a little Innova, also some supplements (which I purchase through Natural Rearing) and herbs.



OH MYLANTA!!!!!! I read both both "Food for Thought" and "It's in the Bag" and it is horrible. There was a lot of stuff that I read on the other website, but some of the info here was way more specific and detailed. I really hope Kim reads this. I don't know what he feeds the dogs, but I hope its not this crap. This site is HIGHLY educational and I hope everyone reads the articles. They are a pro-raw meat, hollistic vet, "old ways" site that I think everyone here would benefit from. Thank you for the link!

#14 maria

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 03:53 PM

You are welcome....the bottom line is each person has to do what they think is best for their dogs...I try to gather info as much as possible...the natural rearing website is what I learned alot on. I think Kim does things as naturally as he can. He has alot of knowledge about these dogs and cares for them deeply!!! Try to keep in perspective though...we as humans eat fast food sometimes....I think the key is to try to feed them as naturally as you can for most of their meals but know that other things are ok for a quick meal hear and there.
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

-Ancient Indian Proverb-

#15 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 08:56 PM

We feed Soul our leftovers about 3 times a week and he works off the scraps enough that the fat trimmings and other things don't really affect him. He's part of the family - we eat it, he eats it.

Having said that, we don't eat a lot of red meat, but we enjoy our weekly roast or steaks. We try to buy from the local fresh meat market (free range cattle, fresh cut) and he always saves Soul a bone or two - raw is the way we go on that...sometimes soaked overnight in some smoke flavoring.

Innova dog food is what we have used as we couldn't find Candidea (sorry for the spelling, Todd!) close to us...and it seems to work for him. His metabolism is so high, we felt that the higher protein in the puppy food works. He burns enough calories in about 15 minutes of running and playing to make me lose about 40 pounds a week!!! :) He is VERY active!!!
For snacks he gets Organic treats, bully treats, deer antlers, and homemade goodies (see his birthday pics). Oh and ice cubes...the dog LOVES ice cubes!

You'll find a good balance and if it isn't working, your pup will let you know...they have a strong sense of what they want!!

As for the RAW and natural eating - if they were in the wild, they'd be eating whatever they could kill...or find...Soul is partial to what hubby calls horse cupcakes when we are out walking in Amish country! Yuck - but ...he likes it!!!
"Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" - Unknown

#16 Chickasaw 5-OH

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:08 AM

I agree, everyone must decide for themselves what is best. I am not here to make anyone feel like they are doing something bad or wrong. I am sure everyone here does the best they can for their dogs. I have the upmost respect for you all.

The thing about fast food is so true too. I don't cook so either my husband cooks or we order out. If I had the energy and know how, I would cook healthy meals for us, but fast food is just easier and sometimes it's yummier. :D I just think any good decision is a well informed one. You wouldn't get a tattoo without researching the artists.

Oh yeah, Kim totallly loves these dogs!! No doubting that. That is why he is doing what he is doing. I just don't think anyone is beyond learning something new.

I think I have gathered enough info now to let this go and just do the best I can to be a good "mommy" so to speak. :) No more obsessing. Any additonal info is always welcome though. I hope others have learned something, as I have learned TONS! Best wishes to everyone!

#17 Chickasaw 5-OH

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:16 AM

Just checked out Innova. Loved it!! I know what every ingredient is! It sounds great. Thanks!

#18 maria

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 04:11 AM

We feed Soul our leftovers about 3 times a week and he works off the scraps enough that the fat trimmings and other things don't really affect him. He's part of the family - we eat it, he eats it.

Having said that, we don't eat a lot of red meat, but we enjoy our weekly roast or steaks. We try to buy from the local fresh meat market (free range cattle, fresh cut) and he always saves Soul a bone or two - raw is the way we go on that...sometimes soaked overnight in some smoke flavoring.

Innova dog food is what we have used as we couldn't find Candidea (sorry for the spelling, Todd!) close to us...and it seems to work for him. His metabolism is so high, we felt that the higher protein in the puppy food works. He burns enough calories in about 15 minutes of running and playing to make me lose about 40 pounds a week!!! :) He is VERY active!!!
For snacks he gets Organic treats, bully treats, deer antlers, and homemade goodies (see his birthday pics). Oh and ice cubes...the dog LOVES ice cubes!

You'll find a good balance and if it isn't working, your pup will let you know...they have a strong sense of what they want!!

As for the RAW and natural eating - if they were in the wild, they'd be eating whatever they could kill...or find...Soul is partial to what hubby calls horse cupcakes when we are out walking in Amish country! Yuck - but ...he likes it!!!



Horse cupcakes Bwahahaha!!!! I have to tell my sister that one!!! Actually if it's grass fed horses and cows, I've read that there are good minerals and such in it....I guess as long as they don't eat ALL the "cupcakes" it would be ok.....the smell later isn't very nice though!
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

-Ancient Indian Proverb-

#19 maria

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 04:20 AM

I agree, everyone must decide for themselves what is best. I am not here to make anyone feel like they are doing something bad or wrong. I am sure everyone here does the best they can for their dogs. I have the upmost respect for you all.

The thing about fast food is so true too. I don't cook so either my husband cooks or we order out. If I had the energy and know how, I would cook healthy meals for us, but fast food is just easier and sometimes it's yummier. :D I just think any good decision is a well informed one. You wouldn't get a tattoo without researching the artists.

Oh yeah, Kim totallly loves these dogs!! No doubting that. That is why he is doing what he is doing. I just don't think anyone is beyond learning something new.

I think I have gathered enough info now to let this go and just do the best I can to be a good "mommy" so to speak. :) No more obsessing. Any additonal info is always welcome though. I hope others have learned something, as I have learned TONS! Best wishes to everyone!


Chickasaw 5-OH
I am so glad that you are someone who likes to gather info. There is so much out there that it's hard to know what is true....and I agree we all can learn something new. This is why I'm glad we have the forum...we all have different resources which I think is very helpful! You will be a WONDERFUL Mommy!!!
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

-Ancient Indian Proverb-

#20 DebiSlaughter

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  • Location:Coldwater, MI

Posted 11 July 2010 - 09:19 AM

Horse cupcakes Bwahahaha!!!! I have to tell my sister that one!!! Actually if it's grass fed horses and cows, I've read that there are good minerals and such in it....I guess as long as they don't eat ALL the "cupcakes" it would be ok.....the smell later isn't very nice though!


Most of the horses around us (being one of the largest Amish communities in Michigan) are grass fed. Our vet laughed at me when I was worried about it and said the same thing you did, Maria - as long as he isn't eating that as his "main" meal===cupcakes are always a welcomed dessert!! ROFLMAO!!!

Edited by Debi, 11 July 2010 - 09:20 AM.

"Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" - Unknown




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