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Lil' Liliko'i Pineki


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Sorry to hear about Lili's injury, Chinatola.

 

My Mom has a Daschund mix that has a slight luxating patella. It is not bothering her though, just something the Vet noticed. So, it is not rare or only in AI Dogs.

 

How old was Lili when you first noticed? How old is she now?

(You may have written this before but I've just come back to civilization and my brain & body are catching up ....)

 

As a "waiter" to be a guardian of my FIRST AI, I am so grateful for this forum and the information from others.

I am trying to learn from it.

 

I am glad Kim monitors these things. I'm sure he wants to keep the camp dogs as healthy as possible for all the future generations. Growing up on a dairy farm, and in Vo-Ag, I know that observation and information are key to breeding out unwanted traits - health or personality. Nowadays there is also genetic testing but that doesn't always show everything.

 

I pray for everyone to return to good health and for the new generations to be even healthier.

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Hiya there! It's me, Lili.... I just came back from the park where we played with upholstery dog. Don't know that dog's name but Big Alph calls her upholstery dog. Something about the dog's c

Julie's Brother Jim and family live within 20 minutes of Garden of the Gods so that is certainly a plan of action on this trip. We're headed to Canyonlands today and Arches national park tomorrow but

Bite his butt & yell in his face!! Worked for me     You got a Ball? Really? I love ball. I got nine! One's a orange football....that one makes me mad & I growl at it because it don't

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Miss Tara had it. She also had a traditional GSD bad hip and 40 more lbs than Lili, so the knee eventually blew out. The doctor that operated on Tara said it was very common in shepherds because the knee opposite the bad hip takes all the strain. I am actually somewhat glad that our elderly GSDs were not so mobile because it would have been easy to hurt little Waki. Cake did have that concussion a while back. Thing is she is the one attacking Waki.

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He's got his work cut out for him with Cake that's for sure.

 

We didn't notice this issue until this year, probably the last three to four months...she's 2.5 years now.

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Okay....well, I'm so glad that I got that second opinion!

 

Met with my sisters recommended vet yesterday, Gregg Greiner and I have to say...what a great guy! Funny, knowledgeable, experienced and just very 'comfortable' I guess is the best way to put it.

 

We got stuck in a little traffic heading over there since it was 5 on a Friday afternoon but all was well and had a few minutes wait while he shuffled around some things waiting for us.

 

He diagnosed both legs...right and left...as having luxating patella's. That was a surprise. She'd recently started showing indications that her right leg was starting to bother her too but I thought at first that I was seeing things and then I started to doubt which leg had the problem and what was going on.

 

So that confirmed that she's got the problem in both knees. That wasn't good news.

 

She's a level 1 left knee and a 2 in the right. That's better news...surgery is recommended at 4+. She's not even close.

 

Gregg's become a fan of Chinese herbs because the meds these days are sometimes poisonous when taken over long periods, like NSAID's for example and the havoc they wreak on the stomach. He tested about 20 different combo's and discovered a few that really do work and one of these combo's apparently has great effect on this problem. Acts as a anti-inflammatory which helps the situation heal up and in some cases the dogs need no further treatment.

 

Obviously, no guarantee's but it's a path that we can try now to see whether this Chinese herb idea works.

 

In any case, he said surgery is a last resort scenario and he felt that she's a great distance from that in her present condition.

 

I was a little shaken that it turns out to be present in both knees but I'm hopeful this herb treatment will help.

 

No more chuck it.

 

 

stealth.jpg

Edited by Chinatola
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I'm glad she's a long way from surgery and that there is an option. Let us know what he prescribes and if it's commonly available since there could be other folks in the same boat that are interested.

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That sounds great! I really hope the herbs work!

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The stuff is called Du Huo Ji Sheng Tang; Tuhuo & Taxillus Combination. Three and a half ounce plastic bottle imported from Taiwan by Evergreen Herbs out of City of Industry CA.

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Love it.

 

Waki does more with his bottom. He's shorter than everyone so he uses it like a weapon. He sits on Cake. He also puts his shoulder to the floor and deflects Cake's attacks with it.

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My fingers are crossed for Liliko'i......Plinking away.......it's hard to type now. How is she doing now, China?

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She's good Mol, thanks for asking. She's confused about the fact that the chuck it thing is no longer an option. We kept the ball but 'chucked' the handle part (actually it's in the garage for potential future usage...??!!??) so she at least gets to play with her favorite ball a little bit.

 

She's only been on the Chinese herbs for a couple of days and one of those days was pretty significantly interrupted by Thorms & lightening and whatnot. She had a rough time last night as some pretty heavy storms rumbled through the area. She normally doesn't eat well in situations like that as her fear gets the better of her and robs her appetite.

 

Since the somewhat restricted activity level she's only had a few 'reset' situations and those have been minor in scope, impact and length. She seems to know that something is going on with the special emphasis on eating and all that. She's a trooper and never complains at all about it.

 

So far so good...I'm waiting a good few weeks before we do some hard running and things to test it out. Give the herbs a chance to do their thing.

 

Chinese herbs.jpg

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Sorry to hear about the storms. Lili seems to be understanding it a little better? - at least how to reset it. :)

(maybe not why she can't play with Chuck ... )

 

Glad It usually takes a couple of weeks for natural medicines to show any results. I'm sure your vet gave you a timeline.

 

Good luck! We're all rooting for this to help!

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"So far so good...I'm waiting a good few weeks before we do some hard running and things to test it out. Give the herbs a chance to do their thing.

 

 

 

Hey China, I sure would think about giving Lil Lili more than a few weeks before any hard running. These pups will go for the gusto any time you want them to, but that doesn't mean she is healed. When I play with Tolinka (he just loves the chuck-it too) he will go for about 4 long distance throws then stop and keep his ball signaling that it's Two Steps turn...Yes, the two have eye contact signaling each others turn. ya, and they are very serious about it. By the way, this is one they put together. Gotta love their minds. Take it easy with Miss Lili. ;) She is such a delicate but sassy little fruit tart and the size of a peanut. You gave her a perfect name.

Aloha

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It was still bad when it blew through here. Brother Waki had his head under the pillows (came up between the two of us in the bed). On the one hand he was brave enough to go pee with his thunder shirt, on the other hand he was still not happy last night. I'm hoping this is like the curtain thing- with time and seeing nothing bad actually happens....

 

If you get Lili a sister, she'll be little for a while. Once she does get big enough to make an impact, you can take the edge off with individual play. It is hard to get them not to do things that give them a lot of pleasure - like pulling on an elder's tail. You can discourage it while you are there but if they are alone together... I wonder if Gib has had any trouble with Draco playing too hard with Wicca? On the other hand, the happiness and companionship of another kindred 4 legged has a huge impact on health and mood in general.

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Just a thought - have you asked your vet about use of a knee brace? A few companies make them and I did read that they can help for development of corrective muscle. It might be worth a look into. I don't know how good they are for play time or long term but if they are good for hard play maybe use of "sports equipment" could be a pathway?

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My plan is bordering on 'light duty' for the rest of her life! LOL.

 

Of course I'm not that over the top but we're planning a trip out to Moab in September to meet up with Julie's brother & wife 'n their dogs. Arches and Canyonlands! (The dogs names are Mongo and Waco...but I can see where someone might think they were named Arches and Canyonlands!) Can't wait. Also, Jazz! John Pizzarelli is going to be playing at the Sorrell river ranch resort. It's the umpteenth annual Moab music fest! Should be fun.We intend to take squint with us so this was a welcome trajectory to follow considering that the surgery would have put her right at the point where she would be able to return to restricted normal activities at the time we had planned to leave (9/4).

 

With the new plan we don't have that invasive part of the equation anymore but the schedule for rehab will remain in place. She'll be on 'light duty' through the trip in September at a minimum. Her progress or lack thereof will determine where we go from here.

 

I have no use for that problem anymore and the complications that come from it so my plan is to walk. Literally. Walk this back to health. We did about 4.5 miles yesterday. About the same today. I'm taking a day or two of rest during the week also, mainly for my tired, old, creaky bones, but the plan is minimum of 3-4 miles per day for her. Minimal running save the occasional Squirrel or Robin thoughtless or bold enough to be caught with its proverbial pants down when she ambles up in that characteristically Liliko'i way; bouncy front legs and clockwork hips lend this hypnotic swaying to the way that she walks. It's funny. She can get up a pretty good head of steam before she'll break into a gallup. She's almost like a windup toy.

 

It's one of the key points of progress to watch actually; whether she's bending her knees when she's walking. Gregg (vet) noticed that she walks somewhat stiff legged & guessed that it might be some residual soreness in her gate due to the patella. Makes sense to me so that's what I'm watching...'cept it's hypnotic and I find myself drifting until I realize that I'm no longer walking and she's sitting next to me wondering why we stopped.

 

Her first two years with us was HikeTown: Every day. Walk here, walk there. Got to the point where we'd walk to work several times a week when the weather was reasonable. It's 5.5 miles one way. We'd gotten so routine that she was walking great huge chunks of that 5 miles entirely off leash! There are some serious intersections and even a US route on our path back and forth and I won't take a chance with a suicidal chipmonk chase, she goes on leash there 110% of the time.

 

What we didn't do too much of was dog park visits, that's a little bit different this year from last. Ida, or as the boards were introduced to her; OLP (old lady puppy), was not the most sociable dog in the world & early in her life we weren't as wise as our little Indian dog has helped us to become in recent years so we didn't venture forth with Ida in tow as much. Then Lili came and that changed. Now that Ida is gone I feel Lili needs more 'dog' time so we go to the park more often.

 

Last winter jacked our hike schedule around but good. The normal paths that we'd taken to walk to work were blocked for months with ice, in some cases 10-12 feet tall with the plowed stuff on top! Plus it was brutally cold. so there was a 4-5 month stretch were we had 'inside' activities. Lots of chasing the tennis ball. Lots of running on snow mountain

 

theascent.jpg

 

When the epic thaw happened I wanted to expedite the fun and got the chuck it.

 

Here we are.

 

Depending on humidity levels I think I'll walk home from work Thursday. Good day to go home early.

Edited by Chinatola
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  • 2 weeks later...

Lili Update!!

 

It's been almost a month since we took Squint to see Gregg. Her stiffness is mostly gone! She has a much more natural gate to the way she walks now. She seems to be much more comfortable in her skin and most importantly her instances of 'POP' have diminished to nearly none.

 

She did have a minor incident yesterday but recovered very nicely and didn't repeat the problem at all for the rest of the day.She still has the occasional pop problem but compared to the initial problem she had and then the continuation of that problem the current status is night and day!

 

I think we're on the right path with respect to the knee problems.

 

Fingers crossed...along with heart hope to die, eyes, streets, stations of the, Criss, a cut saw and anything else you can think of for a pun for Cross!!!!!!

Edited by Chinatola
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Overall that's such great news!!!!!!

 

The Vet still has her on the Chinese herbs? Awesome!

I am believing that there will be even more improvement in the next few months.

 

If I remember correctly - was this a multi-month treatment if you had success with it?

 

ABSOLUTELY GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

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Yea, the timing right now is open...we'll see when we go back in about a month or when we run out of herbs.

 

By the by...

 

Discovered a source for raw goats milk and we mix the herbs with the milk and she's like a addict for that goats milk. Curious though if there's any advice for that product. dosage ...warnings....etc. Noticed a little loose stool since the goats milk and it's only a very small amount twice a day with the herbs so I'm not too worried but since I have no first hand experience with it I thought I'd ask the collective wisdom of the boards.

 

I was stunned when I first found it and gave her a couple of ounces. She went nuts!! Since she loves it so much we decided to mix the herbs with it to ensure that she gets her herb dosage even when she's not all that hungry. So far so good!

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Haven't tried raw goats milk on dogs but from what I read it is supposed to be good nutrition for them.

 

Roger, my sister's dog is having yeasty skin and I can't remember if it was here (another) post that some one suggested salmon oil.

Roger loves it (it's not enough to put herbs in though.

 

He had a yeasty coat, and we upgraded foods a little, the vet gave us a medicated shampoo and we bought salmon oil at petco.

He doesn't put off that terrible smell we he gets anxious and doesn't give me migraines all the time now. Win WIN!

 

I just googled (am waiting for a software update to finish - so have time) and I saw a few articles that goats milk could give adults some stool issues.

 

I think it's a higher amount than you are giving. Maybe her digestive system needs to get used to it and it will go away?

Could it be the herbs? Some pills cause people these side effects .......

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The adventure of the Tee Ball!

 

Went last night to my drummer's son Joey's Tee Ball game. OMG I forgot how much fun that was. My son is 25 now so those memories are pretty fuzzy for me so this was a real treat.

 

Normally, as you may remember, there’s nine guys on the field during a baseball game; pitcher, catcher, 1st, 2nd & 3rd, shortstop and the three outfielders = 9.

 

Joey’s team had fourteen kids on the field at one point! 3 kids hovering around 2nd base kicking dirt & stealing each other’s hats. Four more kids between 2nd & 3rd. A few extra outfielders. The first baseman took a ball to the chest because he wasn’t paying attention during a ground ball to the 2nd baseman who took 45 seconds to gather up the ball and throw it to the absentminded first baseman! He didn’t cry but he got all pissed off at the 2nd baseman for hitting him! Then, the same 2nd baseman, like three plays later, went to field the ball and instead held it up over his head as if to shout at his Mom; ‘Look! I got it!!!” He didn’t actually say anything though so it made it even more surreal.

 

I was dyin’….tears rollin’ down my cheeks. The parents are the best. It’s like the World Series for many of these people. The kids are mortified by that and many of them are there under protest anyway and demonstrate their love for the game by dragging the bat very lethargically into the batter’s box when it’s time to bat and then holding it on their shoulder’s like it’s made of 3,000 lbs of lead. When the pitch comes in (they pitch three times…if they can’t hit it they put it on the tee) the swing would make a mosquito laugh at the force of it!

 

So we’re standing there with Liliko’i, who was again the toast of the park (it’s amazing how many people we’ve met since we’ve gotten this dog!), and I glance off to first base; there’s a glittery costumed base runner there! I thought, ‘hmmm…little extravagant for baseball, no?’ Not so much…it was a girl! How cool! AND! AND! She kicked ass!! Once I realized that they had two girls on the other team I started to pay more attention to them and they killed it…great bats, pretty good fielding…reasonable attention span…they were good. The boys were jealous I think.

 

Of course the coaches couldn’t keep the kids focused for more than a few minutes at a time (even the girls) so that’s when the hilarity ensues. There’d be a few minutes of focus and attention then you’d see that slowly they’re starting to drift off and play with the dirt or pulling grass up out of the turf or stealing things from the other players…there were a few cases of ‘it’ (referred to as 'tag' in other parts of the country) being played by the shortstop and the left fielder…we had a blast! The best though were the girls! They were practicing dance routines when they were out in the field!

Edited by Chinatola
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Great narrating! Like I was there .... :)))))

Edited by Denise E.
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Another great story with the first cup of coffee in the morning. Thanks China. Its so fun to see their few moments of clarity and then fog brain sets in again. Your description of these little guys playing T ball is perfect. :lol:

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  • 3 weeks later...

........ I wonder if Gib has had any trouble with Draco playing too hard with Wicca? On the other hand, the happiness and companionship of another kindred 4 legged has a huge impact on health and mood in general.

 

Oh, Dog..... This is an excruciating part of the ordeal....

 

Of course they want to play. Of course, these dogs are in tune enough that Draco would ramp down his play attempts, but really there were WEEKS were Wicca was on profound restriction and we had to keep them separated.

 

They wanted to play so much it hurt to keep them apart.

 

Of little to no comfort in the present, but in retrospect this is a team building adventure. You are all going through this and, from now on, into the future, when you look at each other you will simply KNOW. Yep, we've been through this. Yep, we did that.

 

And, that's enough.

 

Or, perhaps that's everything.

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