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#1 gramtot

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 04:52 AM

At a puppy social, one of the supervisors described Denakka as "wild". This supervisor had dealt with Denakka at their puppy day care a couple of times. At first I was amused but then asked her to explain. She said that many very (more) domesticated breeds recognize the primitive qualities in AIDog, Huskies, Malmutes,.. and react accordingly. As an example, she mentioned how Border collies are bred to protect sheep from coyotes and wolves and any other threats. As such, their reaction to a puppy with primitive qualities could be more aggressive or cautious than with other breeds. She said it was just something of which to be aware, especially when meeting new dogs. If they don't get along at first, it might be their instincts from generations of breeding kicking in and saying "Caution!" Frankly, I prefer the term 'primative' to 'wild' but wonder if other have experienced this. Sometimes dogs meet and don't like one another--just like humans. I wonder if this is any different or if her "read" of the situation is indeed breed/primitive related?

#2 Starghoti

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 04:56 AM

At a puppy social, one of the supervisors described Denakka as "wild". This supervisor had dealt with Denakka at their puppy day care a couple of times. At first I was amused but then asked her to explain. She said that many very (more) domesticated breeds recognize the primitive qualities in AIDog, Huskies, Malmutes,.. and react accordingly. As an example, she mentioned how Border collies are bred to protect sheep from coyotes and wolves and any other threats. As such, their reaction to a puppy with primitive qualities could be more aggressive or cautious than with other breeds. She said it was just something of which to be aware, especially when meeting new dogs. If they don't get along at first, it might be their instincts from generations of breeding kicking in and saying "Caution!" Frankly, I prefer the term 'primative' to 'wild' but wonder if other have experienced this. Sometimes dogs meet and don't like one another--just like humans. I wonder if this is any different or if her "read" of the situation is indeed breed/primitive related?



In the year that I have had JJ- I have noticed that he has No Trouble making friends at the dog park. Almost without fail, all dogs like him, and/or get along and play with him. I'm not sure what you 'supervisor' is talking about, because- personally- I have not experienced this phenomenon at all- ever.

Oh- and I prefer the term "True Dog" over primitive or wild. lol
As opposed to the plastic-dogs like Cocker Spaniels and Bichons :)
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#3 gramtot

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 06:16 AM

That's exactly what I've experienced so far--just normal dog behavior.

My term for any dog under 30 pounds is Wannabe Dog. I may have to start using "plastic" for the very domesticated breeds as well--I like that. :)

#4 Starghoti

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 06:56 AM

That's exactly what I've experienced so far--just normal dog behavior.

My term for any dog under 30 pounds is Wannabe Dog. I may have to start using "plastic" for the very domesticated breeds as well--I like that. :)


Depending on size/type I call the little ones either "Punt-a-pets" or "Bunny Slippers"
lol
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#5 judyk

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 01:44 PM

In the year that I have had JJ- I have noticed that he has No Trouble making friends at the dog park. Almost without fail, all dogs like him, and/or get along and play with him. I'm not sure what you 'supervisor' is talking about, because- personally- I have not experienced this phenomenon at all- ever.

Oh- and I prefer the term "True Dog" over primitive or wild. lol
As opposed to the plastic-dogs like Cocker Spaniels and Bichons :)

We have never encountered any of that behavior with any of our kids. I don't know what the 'supervisor' could be talking about either -- we call our kids our glorified mutts as opposed to her description of 'wild'. She must be used to AKC pups and all their hang ups! Just sayin'

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#6 miz molly

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 01:49 PM

Depending on size/type I call the little ones either "Punt-a-pets" or "Bunny Slippers"
lol

Those little tiny guys to me are L.R.D.'s "little rat dogs."
back to the subject at hand.......
Gramtot, When the supervisor at the puppy social, speaks of primitive, wild, more domesticated, etc, I wonder if she was referring to their social introductions to each other. In my experience with dogs, dogs get along with other dogs as long as they abide by the social rules of "getting to know you" and "lets play" within the canine kingdom. Dogs that approach without using these rules are the ones that start trouble. Or perhaps their owners have taught them differently because of their own reactions to situations, or purposely trained them to be aggressive.
I am reading a book called "Inside of a Dog ....what dogs see, smell, and know."
Written by Alexandra Horowitz, a scientist, and dog lover. There is one part about the body language of dog play and the signals, head bow, open mouth display, play slap, play barks, and attention getting communications. Her theory, after studying dogs at play, taking videos, and watching them in slow motion is fascinating. "Play signals are reliably used to begin and continue play with others. They are a social requirement, not just a social nicety. Dogs typically play together rambunctiously and at a breakneck pace. Since they are doing all manner of actions that could easily be misinterpreted - biting each other on the face, mounting from behind, or fore, tackling the legs out from under another dog - the playfulness of their actions has to be manifest. If you fail to signal before biting, jumping on, hip-slamming and standing over your playmate, you are not in fact playing; you are assaulting him."
Or am I missing the boat here?
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#7 Karen

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:02 PM

I've never had this issue, either. Danza is a very happy, outgoing girl. She's thrilled to meet all, human or canine. If something isn't clicking, she cheerfully moves on.

I like the phrase "doggy" or "extra doggy". She's like Essence of Dog, or dog concentrate.

Gramtot - some of our dogs come in at under 30 lbs.
I do beautiful, wild, unique abstract photography.
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#8 gramtot

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:48 PM

Whoops. Didn't mean to insult anyone with that! I've always had pretty large dogs but some of my best doggy friends have been little and I call them Wannabee right to their faces! They've never been too insulted because it comes lovingly with lots of pets and play.

#9 miz molly

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 05:49 AM

No offense taken by me. I think all of these nick names for those little tikes are pretty cute, and yes they are all spoken with lots of warmth behind it, I am sure. :) Whether you own one or not, they are too cute and always look like they are in that "puppy stage" that we all love. For me, I would be afraid I'd step on that little thing. I think that's why I like the more medium size dog. The AID is perfect.

Also I hope everyone realizes that the last part of my last post was quoting from the book I'm reading. I could never write like that in my wildest dreams. It is a very informative book and recommend it highly. Interesting stuff.
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#10 Starghoti

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 02:56 PM

No offense taken by me. I think all of these nick names for those little tikes are pretty cute, and yes they are all spoken with lots of warmth behind it, I am sure. :D


<giggle>
Don't even get me started on cute nicknames.
Mina: Willamina, young lady, girlie, girlie girl, sweetie, sister, big black and hairy, hairball..
Jasper: Jas, JJ, son, young son, crazy face, monkey butt, boy-o, brother
Tehya: Tay, lil'girl, Roo, sister,

Harley: Har, brother, har boy, har boiled egg, (and others censored due to the family nature of the forum and his being an ornery cat)

And yes they do know themselves and their kin by all these names. And said names have situational context also :)

When I say 'bunny slipper' about small hairy little dogs (eg: shih tsu etc) you have to bear in mind that I was raised by a
family that called the handled baby carriers "picnic baskets for wolves."
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#11 Sherab

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:35 AM

I think I know what the supervisor is talking about. Waki seems to speak universal dog. He has the key and often when we walk I hear about how the other person's dogs are going to bark and then when he sits and cries to them and they don't bark the person is shocked. Cake on the other hand can sometimes get a bad reaction from hunting dogs. The coonhound types (not labs). They seem to not readily associate her with dog and bay at her and this scares her. She can be a little awkward when meeting new dogs. She prefers anyone same size and smaller (hunting dogs excepted) and loves puppies. Larger dogs can scare her or be her best buddy, it just seems to be dog by dog. I take her to the small dog dog park and I've had problems with large malamute and malamute mix type dogs coming over to the fence to stare agressively at her. It's odd. Doesn't happen at all with Waki.



#12 Denise E.

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:01 AM


Depending on size/type I call the little ones either "Punt-a-pets" or "Bunny Slippers"
lol


LOL - I say "kick me" dogs. I wouldn't, that's mean (I mean kick one) but I do use the term for the little dogs that remind me of footballs and I think of Charlie Brown and Lucy, pulling the football ever time he tries to kick it.

Actually, experience has been little dogs can be more easily aggressive and nippy (to people, not necessarily other dogs).

I haven't gotten an AI yet. I do have an rehomed/rescue F3 Bengal. She is very loving but has a lot of more ALC traits - such as observant when she eats, skittish, will try to bury her uneaten food, calling out in evenings, very shy, and loves to have her own space. In the condo which wasn't as open, she marked, and had her places (territorial)- she is better now in this new place with more room to get around the other cats. I had another rescue Bengal (& my Mom two) and none of them exhibit the traits like her. Except snow does do the calling at dusk.

I always wonder who their calling to. I finally just started answering Nicole, asking if she's OK. she stops after a few calls whether I answer her or not.

#13 Rik

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:07 AM



In the year that I have had JJ- I have noticed that he has No Trouble making friends at the dog park. Almost without fail, all dogs like him, and/or get along and play with him. I'm not sure what you 'supervisor' is talking about, because- personally- I have not experienced this phenomenon at all- ever.

Oh- and I prefer the term "True Dog" over primitive or wild. lol
As opposed to the plastic-dogs like Cocker Spaniels and Bichons :P

I like First Dog from The First Nations



#14 Allison

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:45 PM

Recently took my older AIdog to a new vet.  She commented that he looked like a coyote, and looked at me as though I might have a coy dog.  I assured her that he was all dog, and he proved himself during the exam.

 

I am always surprised that people think he looks like a coyote.  He really does not.  I can only surmise that she has not seen many coyotes.

 

However, maybe the body shape, and the leanness even at his age?  These dogs stay fit. 


One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#15 Denise E.

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:11 PM


Before I found Kim and Song Dog Kennels, I had taken a Petfinder or animal planet .... survey to find out which dog breed was right for me.

 

At the end 5 breeds were listed:  Chinese crested water dog, a poodle, a pointer, a Newfoundland and a Canaan Dog.

 

I was intrigued most by the Canaan dog and found out it is a tribal dog in Israel.

 

Of course in googling Canaan Dog rescues it also gave me SDK!  So I guess it was meant to be.

I didn't know there were any of the old "camp" dogs, only knew of Rez dogs.  Totally different.

 

Anyway, this morning on Animal Planet there was a show about dogs and it had a segment about Canaan Dogs and the lady in Israel who is trying to keep that breed of dog alive (sounded a lot like Kim) and she goes to visit Bedouins because they kept on using these "primitive dogs"  and still have some that are pure Canaan dogs and she is getting puppies that don't have modern dog in them to expand her breeding pool.

 

What was really interesting in that it spoke about the primitive dog being the ancestor of modern dog breeds and she felt it differed from the wild relatives (wolves, coyotes ....) in that these first primitive dogs wanted to be around people, protect them and work for them.  They were/are extremely smart and trainable.

 

The it went on to a dog that sneezes backwards.

 

I liked the way "primitive dog" was explained.

 

If Kim ever needs another outcross I wonder if a Canaan Dog from this lady would be an option ...

just a thought. 

 

It was neat to her that she is trying to save the primitive Israel dog from modern dog gene influx she loves these dogs so much. 



#16 Allison

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:26 PM

Kim has talked to me about them. I think he may even mention them in one of his articles. Can't find it right away, but will look.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#17 Rickstefani

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 06:06 PM

I have definitely noticed this with my Dog.  He did not have a problem with dogs or people.  He was especially great with small children but certain dogs instantly had an issue with him.  It was noticeable enough off the bat they I watched for it.  He did great at the dog park but I always was careful.  He was never the aggressor but he did not back down either which made a few tense moments.



#18 Nanette

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 04:35 AM

Recently took my older AIdog to a new vet.  She commented that he looked like a coyote, and looked at me as though I might have a coy dog.  I assured her that he was all dog, and he proved himself during the exam.

 

I am always surprised that people think he looks like a coyote.  He really does not.  I can only surmise that she has not seen many coyotes.

 

However, maybe the body shape, and the leanness even at his age?  These dogs stay fit. 

When we took our dogs to the vet, they gave Clay a hard time about the breed as "not real." They wanted to list them as mixed breed. We didn't really appreciate it. Clay referred the office staff to the website and they eased up a tiny bit. Educating one person at a time...



#19 Lisa

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 06:22 AM

I hear you. My Hawk is almost 11 1/2 and the first time at a new vet the same thing. No, this isn't a real breed, it's not an AKC dog. I am so sick of hearing this, still to this day after all these years when people ask about him. I also refer them onto Kim's site.
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#20 Denise E.

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 06:53 AM

At a puppy social, one of the supervisors described Denakka as "wild". This supervisor had dealt with Denakka at their puppy day care a couple of times. At first I was amused but then asked her to explain. She said that many very (more) domesticated breeds recognize the primitive qualities in AIDog, Huskies, Malmutes,.. and react accordingly. As an example, she mentioned how Border collies are bred to protect sheep from coyotes and wolves and any other threats. As such, their reaction to a puppy with primitive qualities could be more aggressive or cautious than with other breeds. She said it was just something of which to be aware, especially when meeting new dogs. If they don't get along at first, it might be their instincts from generations of breeding kicking in and saying "Caution!" Frankly, I prefer the term 'primative' to 'wild' but wonder if other have experienced this. Sometimes dogs meet and don't like one another--just like humans. I wonder if this is any different or if her "read" of the situation is indeed breed/primitive related?

 

Tayamni is very submissive in approach to new dogs.  I have noticed at the dog park that there are certain dog breed types she gravitates to play with.  Sometimes it's that she is familiar, and also I noticed as she is becoming mature her 'taste' has changed a bit.

 

Stayed the same:  she has made friends

Some pit bulls, her Wolf-hybrid (first crush) she grew up with, australian cattle dogs, collies

 

Changes:

As a puppy:  her favorite playmates were Labs, Vislas, Dalmations, Pharoah dogs, great danes, rottweilers, sheppards and why - I don't know - Pit bulls

 

As a young adult:  her new favorites are german short-hair pointers, standard poodles, any herding dog, and puppies - she really is a nanny dog I guess.

 

She will play and run with any different dog on a different day.

The herding dogs have a blast getting together and having a bark fest.  We don't know why they do this.

 

Huskies - it really depends on the dog.  She likes some and others she shies away from.  Same with Dobermans.

 

Coffey on the other hand, has no fear but is submissive to adult dogs,  used to puppy lick the faces (which some adult dogs want nothing to do with) so we have had to watch him closer and train him on etiquette as well as we could.  He can be over bearing / over exited more correct, and tries to greet all the dogs already in the park when he gets there.

 

As an older puppy now, there is a definite difference between his interaction with adult dogs and with puppies.   He wants them to know he's higher in the pack (whatever pack in his mind).  We redirect him from being overbearing or considered aggressive.

He doesn't fight adult dogs but has stood up for himself a few times when a much larger adult dog started to bully him.

Glad he is growing out of the face licking - when he did that he would run right up to a dog and start that.

I don't think his puppy social cues were the best, but he is learning as he is growing up.

 

Coffey loves the wolf-dog and even with a 60 lb difference would straight on tackle the wolf-dog's head.  Good thing Thor grew up with my two (they were all in puppy stages when they met) and has always accepted this play from Coffey.

 

So I wonder, is Coffey and Thor's (and Tayamni gladiator plays with them also) do they have an innate understanding?  if so, why doesn't Tayami like some huskies?

Coffey ignores huskies, likes Doberman's and Tayamni and Coffey both run and play with Collie's.  The collie's don't seem to mind.

 

They (Collie's) didn't mind at the sheep herding classes we go to either.

 

I've got a lot more observing to do!






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