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Our New Pup...


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Thank you so much for posting such a lovely story of your baby girl experience! I'm anxiously waiting my call from Kim to let me know my American Indian Dog - who will be the first puppy I've ever raised - is ready for pick up! I'm reading the latest book about puppy raising from the Monks of New Skete - and I've read all the old blogs on the Forum about resolving different problems. I hope you will continue to post updates about your experiences with Wicca, as I am looking forward to learning as much as I can about this beautiful breed. She is a beautiful girl!

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the Monks of New Skete

 

Which book? Are you liking it?

 

I'll keep posting pictures, but they will slow down a bit after this initial rush.

 

We couldn't be more pleased with both pups.

Edited by Gib
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Hi Gib, Starghoti was right. She told me to re-read your postings about how your new girl is getting along with Draco, and it really has made me feel more confident. I'd gotten a little frightened reading the posts about Tehya.

 

I still have not quite got the hang of the blog so I hope I'm not posting this in the wrong place. I did not see your question about the Monks book last night when I was looking for new posts. Anyway, it's the newest puppy book that I'm reading. It's called The Art of Raising a Puppy, and is an updated version of the one they published in 1991. I'm still in the early sections but it sure is giving me an appreciation of what Kim must be going through with so many new pups to usher safely through their early weeks of development!

 

I'm hoping I can fly to Oregon when the time comes to pick up the pup Kim selects for me - but with things so crazy busy for them, do you think it's a bad idea? Are you glad you drove up to get your pup, rather than flying her home?

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Hi Joanne,

Any excuse to get to Kim's is well worth the trip. It is an amazing place, and will give you lots of understanding of what goes on with a group of pups and how they play and interact with each other. Plus you will be able to talk to Kim about any reservations and questions you might have. That's my 10 cents worth.

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Hi Joanne,

Any excuse to get to Kim's is well worth the trip. It is an amazing place, and will give you lots of understanding of what goes on with a group of pups and how they play and interact with each other. Plus you will be able to talk to Kim about any reservations and questions you might have. That's my 10 cents worth.

I second that. Try to plan on spending a little time there - work it out with Kim ahead of time. The trip will be much more worthwhile if you get a chance to really talk dog with him.

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I second that. Try to plan on spending a little time there - work it out with Kim ahead of time. The trip will be much more worthwhile if you get a chance to really talk dog with him.

I third that idea. If you can, it is well worth the drive. Having the chance, no matter how much or how little time Kim has to share with you, is well worth it. He is amazing with these animals -- there is nothing he hasn't experienced and will gladly give you much needed oointers. The thing is to listen intently and practice religiously what he preaches. You will not be disappointed and it will be an amazing learning experience for you.

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Hi Gib, Starghoti was right. She told me to re-read your postings about how your new girl is getting along with Draco, and it really has made me feel more confident. I'd gotten a little frightened reading the posts about Tehya.

I'm glad you're feeling more confident having read our tales...

 

Every day, every situation is different.

 

It had been a long 30 years since we'd last had a dog. And these are no ordinary dogs.

 

As a boy in a farm/logging community there was a certain way about being with pets that isn't the same as modern city life. And, my dad was a unique pet owner -- giving the pets lots of responsibility and independence as long as they earned it.

 

And I got to raise lots of kittens and a few pups. At one point, I had two dogs, a litter of Siamese cats and two lab rats. All got along very well. It was fun to see the looks on peoples' faces when the rats and cats would play "cat & mouse"!

 

It can sometimes take a while before cohabitation is peaceful and certain, but it happens.

 

Since then, from what I've gleaned from reading (which, I will remind everyone right now, isn't the same as actually having experience!), in the wild, these dogs' (and wolves and coyotes) ancient ancestors worked it out within the context of the Pack Leaders' lines. Each member stepped over the Line, was told in no uncertain terms where the Line was. The Line is challenged and re-challenged and always held and the pack forms.

 

So, we've basically been letting Draco and Wicca work it out. We step in when either one appears to us, to be over Our Line. We stop them and tell them, "You stepped over Our Line."

 

The dogs' line is much different our line. They are teaching us to be more relaxed about the ritualized intensity of their play and its importance to their well-being -- learning both appropriate assertive and submissive behaviors. (And, some of the most amazing Ninja like moves.)

 

It's sort of like what we told our son when we were teaching him to drive. "Two rules. 1 - you will stay within the laws. 2 - the most important rule is that you drive so that we are comfortable. The less comfortable we are; the less you drive. The more comfortable; the more you drive." He's a trustworthy driver now at 37.

 

 

 

So, I think you are right about the owners having a huge influence, perhaps the overriding influence on the situation. The more "book reading" I do, the more I see how my slow "situation reading" and slow reactions end up rewarding/emphasizing the wrong thing. One of the dog books called it "time slicing" so you can read "micro-expressions".

 

 

 

All I know is that I have to be vigilant and maintain good humor. At least, Draco and Wicca are tricksters and love a good laugh.

 

 

It's called The Art of Raising a Puppy....

 

I like that book. I found it insightful and useful.

 

And, I love this Forum. I think just about every aspect of being with these dogs is covered. If something is happening with us, we can get online here and there are ALWAYS functional words of advice from people who have lived it. What an priceless resource.

 

I'm hoping I can fly to Oregon when the time comes to pick up the pup Kim selects for me - but with things so crazy busy for them, do you think it's a bad idea? Are you glad you drove up to get your pup, rather than flying her home?

 

It made for a long weekend of some 18 hours in the car and just over 1000 miles round trip. That being said, we get to stop about half-way in Portland and see our son, Merlin and his wife, Julia and our grandkids. They have the brother, Rocco, of our dog, Draco.

 

Thus, after we picked up Wicca, we had just over 4 hours in the car, just the four of us. That gave us time to get to know each other before we landed in the whirlwind of activity. Our family bond was set by the time we got to Portland.

 

It all went exceedingly well. Has anyone mentioned these dogs are extraordinary?

 

About two hours into our drive, Wicca was whining. Draco reached out and gently laid his paw on her. She calmed right down. He was soon asleep after this picture was taken.

 

Draco__s_hand_on_Wicca.jpg

 

If you choose to have the pup flown, I wouldn't worry about the consequences. I mean, I would have the normal concern of putting my new loved one in a crate on a plane, but from what I've read here on the Forum, the pups see their new owners as their Rescuers. And, THAT bond will be powerful in its own way. That will allow any healing that needs to take place do so easily.

 

I rescued my last dog from a very bad situation and she knew it. She was from the first moment relentless in her pursuit to make sure I was happy.

 

AND, the others are right. If and when you can, try to get to the kennel. You'll Know that you've found the right dogs and breeder. Talk with Kim. Listen closely. And look at each dog closely. I guarantee that each dog will be looking closely at you. ;)

 

Enjoy the process. Enjoy the Forum.

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It made for a long weekend of some 18 hours in the car and just over 1000 miles round trip.

That drive is killer for a weekend trip. I've done that once - left Friday, checked into the Holiday Hotel at about 11:30 pm, picked up the pup at about 9:30 am, turned around and drove home in a blizzard. Last summer when my son and I went down, we had an extra night and a stop in Portland on the way home. Much more civilized.

 

But by the time you have been on the road for about 6 1/2 hours and you have an hour and a half to go, you are thinking "How can it be that I'm not there already!?" The way home is better - you aren't driving further and further into the void.

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  • 2 weeks later...

All the new puppy pictures are great. All the stories of rescued AI Dogs (Amazing job, Star.) are touching and inspiring.

 

Here's a few thousand words (in pictures) on Wicca's continuing entrainment as part of our family.

 

 

Wicca attacks and takes Draco down.

 

Draco___Wicca_Playing_2.jpg

 

 

Contentedly playing.

 

D___W_Happy_Together.jpg

 

 

Wicca is a heel nipper. Draco is frequently tucking his back legs like this.

 

D___W_Heel_biting.jpg

 

 

They wrestle, tug, run and roll. Then, they take off together and give a quick kiss.

 

Draco___Wicca_Kissing.jpg

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That is so absolutely sweet. I am totally enjoying these. I feel like I am getting to see her grow.

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Love, love, love that last picture of the two walking off together. Marvelous.... What fun to have two playing together!

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Draco has such beautiful markings....Lola where are you? :D Love the photo of Dreco laughing as Wicca takes him down. ha ha ha.

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Love, love, love that last picture of the two walking off together. Marvelous....

Me too! Thanks for sharing. I love how young dogs are so cool with lots and lots of touch. I've noticed Danza being much more comfortable with lots of casual dog-dog touch than my other dogs, and I think it's because she grew up with another dog friend.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Draco and Wicca frequently either play with or play keep away with their chews...

 

Wicca___Draco_Share_Choy.jpg

 

 

 

The pups get along pretty good....

 

Wicca___Draco_on_Dogwood_Hill.jpg

 

 

 

Wicca's new back hair is coming in wavy... it's beautiful..

 

Wicca__s_Back_Hair.jpg

 

 

 

The color balance isn't quite right in this photo but the portrait is pretty clear...

 

Wicca_Portrait_Small.jpg

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Love the stories and did not know about the quarrantine period. So keep the pup away from other dogs until how long after the last shots? You probably met our little girl, Kohana, during your visit! We are in NJ so she will be making the trip on her own by plane and I am a bit concerned but Kim says it's fine. Would you mind sharing some ideas on a good brand of puppy chow? I was leaning towards the Solid Gold brand. Lots of good reviews about it.

 

Congratulations and the pix are awesome! Can't wait to post some of our own hopefully next week!!

 

Best,

DWS :)

Edited by DancesWithSquirrels
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The color balance isn't quite right in this photo but the portrait is pretty clear...

 

Wicca_Portrait_Small.jpg

Look at that face! If you can't correct the photo yourself, send the original to me and I'll fix the white balance, if you want.

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Look at that face! If you can't correct the photo yourself, send the original to me and I'll fix the white balance, if you want.

 

Thank you for the offer, Karen. I'd enjoy hearing sometime how you would do that -- what OS, what program, etc... Would attaching it to a personal message here at the forum work?

 

 

I'm not in any hurry or anything. I've already taken about 100 new pictures since that one! Here's the latest after two of our best friends brought their two female labs over for a dinner romp.

 

The dogs aligned themselves according to size and seniority!!

 

Wicca, Abby, Draco and Sadie.

Wicca_Abby_Draco_Sadie.jpg

 

Sadie was the first dog Draco met when we first got him home and through quarantine -- she's like his step-mom.

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A quickie report.... and hopefully a smile.

 

I was just cleaning up the yard and was a little frustrated by how many chew bones Draco & Wicca had. So, I tossed them into a pile.

 

They didn't land like this but it gave me the idea.

 

How about a portrait of an AI Dog made out of bones!!??!!

 

 

Bone_Portrait.jpg

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These were the perfect pictures for me to revisit tonight. I got my call last weekend and will be picking up my puppy very soon. Seeing your two together is really helping me visualize just how much dogs need other dogs. I hope my MooShoo adapts as happily as your Draco. Thanks so much for the inspiration.

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A quickie report.... and hopefully a smile.

 

I was just cleaning up the yard and was a little frustrated by how many chew bones Draco & Wicca had. So, I tossed them into a pile.

 

They didn't land like this but it gave me the idea.

 

How about a portrait of an AI Dog made out of bones!!??!!

 

 

Bone_Portrait.jpg

Love the idea, and yes, I did giggle......

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Very funny. It reminds me of those stop action short films, made with noodles.

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These were the perfect pictures for me to revisit tonight. I got my call last weekend and will be picking up my puppy very soon. Seeing your two together is really helping me visualize just how much dogs need other dogs. I hope my MooShoo adapts as happily as your Draco. Thanks so much for the inspiration.

 

 

 

Thank you for the kind words.

 

There were times early on, that Draco looked at us and we swear he was thinking, "Well that was fun, when does this puppy go away and leave us alone?" But that was rare. I think they both got it quickly that we are now Four in our Pack, and that's just how it is.

 

There's Yin and Yang to everything. The upsides of having two dogs are more than I first imagined. The downsides are not too much worse than I was concerned about.

 

Training with two dogs is more of a challenge than I thought but easier in some respects. (See how confusing this is!!) Within the first week, because of Draco setting the example, Wicca had learned to Sit, Down, Shake, drink out of the Lickit (auto dog waterer) and ring the bells to go outside.

 

Draco is now helping me leash train her. If the reward for good behavior is a nice treat, he will do this quiet, low, non-menacing growl at her until she gets it right.

 

Yesterday, I took them out on leash together to get the mail during a little two-block walk through our neighborhood. She is not good at stay. In fact, right now, the command "Stay" makes her act like a piece of popcorn and she'll hop straight up in the air, it just frustrates her so much. But, yesterday, I was not going until they both were in either Sit-Stay or Down-Stay and I went out first. I said Stay and she started hopping. Draco started growling and quickly she calmed down, looked at him, saw he was sitting and immediately sat. I rewarded them both and stepped out the gate.

 

Wicca was shivering with excitement of her first leash walk outside the gate but she waited. I released Draco and she stayed. I released her and she was so excited. She knew she had done the right thing. The rest of the walk was if we'd been practicing walking two dogs all our lives. (I won't go so far as to say that will be a consistent on-leash experience, but just to show how Draco helps.)

 

On the other hand, trying to get any time alone with Wicca is difficult, though necessary. Joan and I juggle this one all the time.

 

Another good thing is training the new pup has a tendency to drag the older dog back through basic training all over again. In a couple of ways, we found this really good for Draco. We've had opportunities to fill in some gaps our early lack of understanding and experience caused.

 

 

All the ups-and-downs come together in those moments when the two dogs are just totally, exultantly exuberantly and joyfully being with each other. Watching them run in their huge, nearly supersonic frenzies is profoundly healing. Our faces are plastered with this ear-to-ear grin when Draco and Wicca get their Run on.

 

And THEN. They come with all that loving, vibrant energy and look you square in the eye and smile and flop on you and let you know that they feel good about having picked you for their human....

 

Enjoy the process.

 

The subject of training and integrating a second dog is a good topic.

 

A word about this forum... we have such a wealth of experience and understanding about dogs in general but specifically about this bred to which we've all been drawn.

 

Joan, Draco, Wicca and I have found this forum to be invaluable. We're all here for each other -- and, if you've been reading -- it's not like we don't have our occasional problems. It's just with these resources from the forum to being able to contact Kim directly "We" can usually help. If nothing else, with just the emotional support.

 

So, ask lots of questions. Post lots of answers. Upload lots of pictures.

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  • 5 weeks later...
Thanks again, for the input Starghoti. Nolvasan is on the list.

 

Since I first wrote this, we've found out that Buddy Boo-Boo is no longer being produced. We've also not yet purchased Nolvasan.

 

So, I'm writing today because our pup Wicca has a sore shoulder she's been nursing now for a few weeks. I don't recall now but may have mentioned it elsewhere. We had a play-date with a boxer, Ari. A sweet and fine dog. All is well but near the end of her visit, our two dogs are running with Ari, bumping each other, rearing up and using their fore-limbs for technically brilliant wrestling take-downs.

 

Suddenly, Wicca yelps and kind of pulls up lame; kind of hobbling while favoring her left arm. We haven't been able to absolutely locate whether it is foot, ankle, elbow, shoulder or somewhere in between. The next day showed almost no signs. The next day nothing until the end of the day when she jumped down of her bed -- she yelped and hobbled away.

 

It's been like that with sometimes 4-5 days and then something in her active, rambunctious life triggers it. I spoke with our vet who said this healing process could take a couple of months. Since it's been a month already we are going to try to limit her wrestling for another week and see if we can get past it.

 

So, a couple of questions.

 

1. Any diagnosis/treatment insights? I've been searching and reading anything I can find on the forums and would really appreciate any thoughts.

 

2. We do icing and heat pads along with massage and the dogs seem to both understand what we are doing and appreciate it. But, is there any kind of "lineament" that can be rubbed in to help soothe their sore muscles and bones. Like we use Icy/Hot, Tiger Balm etc.... but what about for dogs? Any ideas?

 

Thank you all, in advance, for any light you may shed....

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I wouldn't use any topical stuff - no Balms- too much chance of licking it off, and you'd have to shave her or you'd just be coating hair anyway.. lol

 

I have a lot of luck with adding Alfalfa and Turmeric to our guys' food.

Helps our old girl- Mina and Jas occasionally pulls something when he goes totally airborn.

Turmeric is a natural anti-inflammatory, and helps with a lot of other stuff too

 

BTW- Nolvasan that I use is a disinfectant, tho the make several other Vet-Grade products also

Check your feed store.

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