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Perianal Fistula


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Well, my AID Ed has been diagnosed with perianal fistula (aka perianal furunculitis or perianal pyoderma). It is a chronic autoimmune disease. It is most likely to be genetic and is almost exclusively found in German Shepherds. It has no cure and is very painful. Sugery is not an option because the side effects outway the pros. Most cases end in euthanasia because it ends up being too stressful and painful for the dog. It is expensive and extensive to treat and treatment does not work for all dogs. Currently Ed is on the strongest medical treatment right now, so we will see how it goes. My Vet told me it is the worst he has seen. This disease happens to middle aged dogs between 5-7 years old. He is not even 2 years old yet (he will be 2 Aug. 18). Things arent looking good for my little Ed and I regret to say that I will have to euthanize if he doesnt respond to treatment. He is in so much pain and there is nothing I can do to help relieve it. All I can do is stand by and watch. Has anyone else ever had any experience with this disease? I am so dissapointed that my AID is not healthy like he should be. I was told that this breed has good genetics but apparently my dog has very bad genetics. I am discouraged with my AID experience and will most likely not be getting another AID. I love Ed and he has been such a good dog so it breaks my heart at the thought to have to lose him so soon.

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Puckmonkey,

 

I am so sorry to hear this. I have GSDs but have never heard of this illness. You've probably googled too but here are a few links that might have some helpful information. It does seem that there's no good or proven pathway, some have luck treating it and others not. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=416335&pagen=2 I found some information on food sensitivity. Good luck. http://www.ehow.com/way_5333351_diet-dog-perianal-fistula.html Good luck to you and Ed. Very sad.

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Our sympathies.

No words can help, I know.

 

Our thoughts are with you.

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Puckmonkey, so sorry to hear about Ed's condition. I did a bit of investigation, and found more information for you on www.peteducation.com and http://www.merckvetmanual.com Take a look, there is some helpful information there. My thoughts are with you, and hope that Ed is one of the lucky ones whose symptoms can be controlled.

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So sorry Puckmonkey.....my thoughts are with you! I can't imagine how you feel......I don't mean to change your mind on AIdogs, but no matter what breed there are issues with health.....some issues can be environment and diet....I honestly don't know about perianal fistula, so I will look these websites up to get more informed! Thanks for letting us on the Forum know what has happened with Ed. I pray Ed will live in the least amount of pain....thankfully he has an owner who cares deeply and will take the best care of him as possible! Take care and know that all of us on the Forum will be here for you!

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Puckmonkey sounds like from the websites I have been reading it seem they think it's more immune mediated....

http://www.gsdhelp.info/auto/afOURS.html

below is the first couple paragraphs from this web site......maybe trying to build Ed's immune system could help.....just a thought!

 

Maria

 

 

Anal furunculosis, or peri-anal fistulas, is a chronic, progressive disease affecting the tissues surrounding the anus of the dog. It is particularly common in German Shepherd Dogs and their crosses. The clinical signs of perianal fistulas may be present for years, gradually worsening over time. A fistula is defined as an abnormal passage or communication between an internal organ and the surface of the body or between two organs, and it is typically seen as multiple draining tracts, in this case surrounding the rectum. With perianal fistulas there is communication between the rectum and the perianal area. Clinical signs may include tenesmus (straining), dyschezia (painful elimination of stool), constipation, licking of the anal area, and mucopurulent anal drainage with an odor. The end result may be anal stricture or fecal incontinence.

 

The cause of perianal fistulas has yet to be definitively determined, but evidence currently suggests that the condition is actually immune mediated. The German shepherd dog is the most common breed affected, but it may be seen in other large breed dogs such as the Irish setter. The typical age of onset is from 5 to 7 years. In the German shepherd the condition is believed to have a definite immunologic basis with inflammation of the entire large intestine (colitis) occurring. Many of the breeds which suffer from perianal fistulas tend to have a broad sloping tail head which may actually predispose them to the formation of fistulas.

 

Here's a little more info on the end of the website.....diet may help!

 

In cases of financial hardship, prednisone has been used with some success. Ancillary use of antibiotics may also be of benefit, especially when faced with secondary bacterial infection.

 

To prevent reoccurrence, a novel protein diet (a diet whose protein source the pet has not been previously exposed to) is suggested, good anal hygiene should be implemented, and the anal area should be monitored for fistula recurrence.

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I did a forum search on the word Perianal and only got one hit from 2009. It was a thread on pros and cons of spay/neuter. Since people are encouraged to share health and behavioral issues here as a sounding board and support group I think there's a good chance of a hit if it happened to anyone else in the recent past. I have to say that there is a good deal of transparency here. I've seen posts on everything from aggression to bone mice. My read on PF is that it's cause is unknown, much like Human MS. There are genetic theories (why more women than men?), Environmental theories (why more northerners?) and infections disease theories but no smoking gun on the mechanism. My heart goes out to you. It's terrible to see them suffer and it's terrible to lose them before their time.

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Having been on the forum from inception and having seven of these creatures, this is the first time we've ever heard of this particular health issue. Our hearts go out to you and Ed and like Maria said above every breed has health issues, ours included. While I'm not going to attempt to change your viewpoint on AIDS, give yourself time to deal with Ed and his health before you say no, never again. This is an extremely sad and trying time for your family, I completely understand, as we've had issues with some of our kids too but please don't make any final decisions on your feelings for the AID breed. If there's anything that Larry and I can help with, email me off the forum.

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This is heartbreaking. I can't even imagine what you're going through. If T were to come down with something like this... well, my whole world literally revolves around this dog right now. Devastating wouldn't even begin to cover it.

 

I also had never heard of the disease, but I saw this post last night and spent several hours educating myself. I suspect I can speak for all of us when I say that this is a very scary thing to have pop up in these dogs.. Everything I've read says that there does indeed seem to be a genetic link in addition to other unknown or speculated factors, but that genetic aspect is what scares me the most. However, I do not think that this means that the breed has 'bad genetics.' As others have mentioned, it sounds like this is the first known case of the disease in AIdogs and as such, it would be impossible for Kim to have avoided something he didn't even know there was potential for in the first place. Any time you're working with a rare breed and therefore a small gene pool, you're always at risk of having these kinds of things crop up - especially as you get further and further down the generations. This is also precisely why Kim continually introduces new bloodlines whenever possible and undoubtedly why these dogs have been able to stay healthier than most. I do remember Kim telling me during my interview, when I asked if he was aware of any health concerns among any of these dogs, that the only ones he knew of were the occasional under bite, some (very few) recent instances of unknown-cause non-epilepsy-related seizures, and some allergies in some dogs. Yesterday I kept reading that PFs and allergies often went hand in hand, both being autoimmune related - which makes me wonder if perhaps there's a link between the two in Ed's case. (I think I remember you having trouble with him chewing/licking his legs also, which is often a sign of allergies). Come to think of it, Kim also warned me against overvaccinating because he was suspicious that it could be related to the random seizures that had occurred in a small handful of dogs that had been stumping vets - that also would be related to an autoimmune issue if the excessive vaccines were weakening the dogs' systems.

 

In any case, thanks to your letting everyone know the situation, hopefully we can use this as a warning and a learning experience.

 

Have you tried a topical zinc oxide cream with Ed? According to this site, quite a few folks have had good results with it, and it's cheap, which I know is very important because the rest of the treatment is most certainly not: http://perianal-fistulas.tripod.com/ZINCOFAX.html

I think you can use it in addition to the oral medication.

 

I also found a link to a genetic test offered in Finland that has been accepted by the OFA according to this site:

http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1588/Perianal_Fistulas

 

Here's the site of the company that does the testing (the PF test is the 'Anal Furunculosis' one):

http://www.genoscoper.com/en/tests-dog/

 

It sounds like there is likely more than one gene that may contribute to this disease, but that there is at least one that they've been able to link to it for sure and that dogs with two copies of this gene WILL pass it on to offspring. Unfortunately the test to determine whether or not dogs are carrying this is not inexpensive.

 

I hope others will report back to Kim as well if their dogs end up coming down with this... I think the more informed he is the better a chance he has at doing whatever he can to avoid it in future generations.

 

I am so sorry you're dealing with this, Puckmonkey. I wish you all the best with the treatment and with keeping Ed comfortable. I read of several cases of this disease last night on the GSD forum, including other 'worst case the vet has ever seen' ones that did eventually respond to treatment. Don't lose hope yet.

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Puckmonkey, this is heartbreaking news. I'm sure you love your dog as much as I love mine, and I can't imagine going through this with one of them. I hope your time with Ed is full of love.

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I am still spending large portions of my day leashed to Wicca during her recuperation. Our 12-week goal is just two weeks away.

 

I spend a lot of time thinking of you and sending blessings.

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Puckmonkey thank you for keeping us posted.....as you can see from the responses this is a very caring group!!!

 

Gib thank you too for all your updates too....I think of these pups and the owners as a "PACK"....a large one but a awesome one!!! My thoughts wander to "THE PACK" many times during a 24 hour period....... ;) wandering and hoping all is well for everyone!

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Here is a web site with a wheat free food that has a lot of great testimonials from animal owners that have sentient beings with all manner of allergies including gluten intollerance and GI issues that have done well on this diet. Sounds like this has a shot of helping. http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/us/testimonials/

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Update on Ed. I have been treating Ed with Cyclosporine which is an immunosuppressant drug along with Ketoconazol which is an antifungal drug that helps the body have less severe reactions to the cyclosporine and helps the cyclosporine absorb better and last longer. He has been on treatment for a week now and I am seeing a small response. The bleeding and fluid leakage has stopped. He is still severely ulcerated and painful but at least I can see that the medicine is starting to work. This just confirms that it is an autoimmune disease since it is responding to an immunosupressant drug. I asked my vet if changing food would do anything and he said that it is not allergy related so it probably wouldnt have an effect on this particular disease. He still does not have an appetite and continues to lose weight. This is a problem because he needs to eat with this medicine or he will vomit it all up and then it will not work so I have to force feed him when I give him his meds. I hope he will continue to hold out for the full treatment and start to show more improvement. This is somewhat good news but not good enough. He is not close to being out of the woods yet. I willl continue to keep you all updated. Thank you all for your thoughts.

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Dear Ed,

It's not fun to be as uncomfortable as you are at the moment. And we know Puckmonkey is in total anguish over you, and so worried he can't sleep at night. We hope you can beat this perianal fistula disease and you get better real soon.

Lick a bone, it will make you feel a tiny bit happier.

Thinking of you daily,

Tolinka and Two Step

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Kim has asked me to let everyone know, that he has been talking with Valeri, he has been talking with his vet, who has been working with Kim for years and, literally, knows these dogs inside and out, and he has researched those lines, finding no indications of problems in any of the other dogs in those lines, nor anything like this in any of the lines.

 

His vet and he conclude that this is not a fault in the genetics of our dogs.

 

He has asked to have the dog back, rather than euthanize him, so that he and his vet can have the chance to help him. They are very concerned about the dog, and simply want to give him every opportunity.

 

Kim has also offered to give Valeri another pup, free of charge.

 

Here are some of Kim's words, which he has asked me to post.

 

Val ~

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry to have jumped all over you, as I know how you must be feeling, but please don’t hurt my feelings either, as I hurt when any of my dogs are in any type of pain too.

 

 

 

 

 

This just doesn’t make any since … as I too have a conscience. I looked up that Katchina X Jay litter & none of those 10 pups in that litter have any problems what so ever & I’ve been in touch (& just called the 2 I was not in touch with) none of his litter mates have problems & they were all very healthy when they left here. Plus all of Katchina’s past pups are fine & all of Jay too, including both Jay & Katchina themselves are fine in there old age. To say nothing of ALL of both of there ancestors going back to the 60’s & some even further. If it were a genetic problem there would be others with it … if that is what it is.

 

 

 

 

 

Please do send me your vet’s #, as it so far sounds to me like some kind of food or dirt type allergy to the skin … maybe he has been miss-diagnosed? As I know all canines have allergy’s & even AI dogs can I have. The AI dogs do not have any GSD in them & not ever having seen this before, makes me wonder (& my vet) if this just might be something else? I would really appreciate talking with your vet & to my vet also – thanks

 

 

 

Kim La Flamme ~ founder/trustee of the AIDog breed for over 45 years -- http://www.indiandogs.com/

 

Sorry, I’m not at all used to owners complaining about there AI dog, in fact it’s always the opposite … so surely you can understand my shock to have a sick dog let alone some one complaining. Glad we can move on from that.

 

 

 

WOW, never seen anything like that … I just don’t get, why an auto immune disease would cause skin problems like that? It looks more like some kind of allergy or something? Could it be something in your soil or that he got into, fertilizer or plant food … wheat allergy ? Did the skin sores start before or after the diagnoses & was that the first symptoms?

 

 

 

I hope you understand that you signed a sales agreement to return your dog if for any reason you couldn’t keep him … I understand this is a different situation than just not being able to care for him. (as it appears you have done all you can & are continuing too) - But please know that if there is any chance he can be fixed or at least just live out his life here with his medication, playing with other dogs … please consider just sending him back & if you want another pup, you would sure be welcome to have another. Although I realize you work for a vet, so should know when it’s time to put a dog down … I can’t help but think this might be some kind of environmental thing, rather than that 1 in a million auto immune thing, (that is supposed to be a genetic disorder … but I’m not there, so have to defer to you to make those choices. … & I’m very sorry that you have to make those choices at all ~

 

 

Kim La Flamme ~ founder/trustee of the AIDog breed for over 45 years -- http://www.indiandogs.com/

 

 

Hi Valeri ~

 

I completely understand how you must feel & I thank you for your understanding in how devastated you must be …. But please know that I’m not asking you to return him to me because you can’t properly take care of him. I just would rather see him here … we have a very natural approach to raising & caring for our dogs that might work out better for him? That of coarse is entirely up to you, what you decide, but please give it some serious thought, as he needs to be on a more natural diet - I believe. Even just to help his immune system after the anti-biotic (couldn’t hurt, that’s for sure) like yogurt, acidophilus, fiber… etc …

 

We have a close friend (Native & an AI DOG OWNER FOR MANY YEARS NOW) THAT IS HEADING OUT FOR OUR GATHERING & TO PICK UP A PUP – IT MAY BE POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO PICK HIM UP & BRING HIM HERE? THINK ABOUT IT, IT MAY BE THE BEST THING … & AS I MENTIONED … IF YOU LIKE I CAN SEND YOU ANOTHER – LET ME KNOW SOON, AS HE IS LEAVING NOW FROM MI & this would have to be a timing thing - THANKS ~

 

 

Kim La Flamme ~ founder/trustee of the AIDog breed for over 45 years -- www.indiandogs.com

 

I will quote one line from Valeri just so that you will understand Kim's next comment:

 

If sending him back is your only offer to make things right then I regret that we can not resolve the situation. Thank you.

 

Valerie ~

 

I don’t know what “other [offer]” you expect …. but from your first e-mail to me … I thought you had your mind all made up you were putting him down & both you & him were miserable & life was horrible, saying how you got stuck with an AI dog & he had sores all over his body & in horrible pain. To say nothing of your vet., making statements he knows nothing about, [like] “this is a genetic breed problem that is inherited” … since he obviously doesn’t have a clue about genetics, that’s what gave me the impression you wanted me to take him back. Now I understand he has only been on medication for one week & seems to be getting better ???? I was under the impression he was on his death bed. I hadn’t said anything about you having to send him back, just that I thought it would be best for him.

 

My advise to you is to please loosen up & don’t give your dog a problem he may not even have, or more than it may be …. Something that you may have built up in your head. I have seen this many times in the AI dog breed, (concerning both animals & people too) the owner starts treating the dog as if it’s sick & the dog starts getting depressed like the owner & they end up both sick. Please just try some healthy herbs & digestive aids that may help him a lot … (especially after the anti-biotic’s) that take away his immune systems ability to fight off things later. But please change your attitude & he may start thinking he is getting better … & what do you know he actually might get better with you having a more positive attitude.

 

You might be amazed at the change in your dog with a positive change in you, yes I suppose with your closed up mind [that is] about all I can do to help, good luck & please do keep me up on how he is doing ~

 

Kim La Flamme ~ founder/trustee of the AIDog breed for over 45 years -- www.indiandogs.com

 

I would also like to add that we can see what a tough situation this is for you two. One of my dogs had an infection in an anal gland that took 2 and a half months to heal, and I know that is not nearly as serious a problem as that which you and Ed are facing. The point being that it is extra difficult to heal the area where the body dumps toxins.

 

So our hearts go out to you, and we wish you all the stamina that you will need. If there is any way in which we might help, you know any and all of us will be only too willing to do what we can.

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Puckmonkey,

 

I want to thank you for making me aware that German Shepherds are susceptible to GI and PF. I've often supplemented with probiotics but will now make that a regular addition.

 

I was moved by Kim's offer to take Ed. Waki is my fur child, for better or for worse. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't "give him back" to Kim but I would "send him home" to see if that would give him a chance. The way I'd see it, going to his birth home might give him a boost and just might work and it would give Kim a chance to see/understand what's going on. It would be unbearable to let him go but if he were really bad off and I thought putting him down was a really strong possibility I'd do it. Good luck to you. My heart aches for you.

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I was so sorry to hear of Ed's problems, I do hope you find the answer, I have never heard of this, don't know if this is prevalent over here or no, will ask my vets when I see them next month. Shunka is due for his annual check. He is a little bit creaky now, but generally fine, but at his age, he is terrific, he gets around easier than I do!

 

i hope you life with Ed will be as long and ythat before long he may be trouble free

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Wow- how much Kim must love these dogs.

To offer to have Ed flown back to him, and take on the responsibility of caring for him for the rest of his life, if need be-

That is commitment!

I know, if I were in her place and had to make the choice of death or possible better life- I'd choose Life for my dog, no matter how difficult the decision was for me to make...

 

Thank you Kim for all you do.

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Hey Star! You are so right. Kim is committed but also when we agree to raise these pups we sign a Sales Agreement that states the pups must come back to him for any reason. I agree with you too that I would have to chose life and let Kim and his vet see exactly what it is that is going on with poor Ed. Jay is also Tsaga's dad and she is very healthy - no problems at all. I know that Val is a vet's assistant but in my opinion some vets see things differently than others. We had an experience where we lived before with an incident we had with Willie. There is the chance that if Ed is back in his birth environment with all the other dogs he could rally healthwise and live out his life in Oregon, we could only hope that for Ed's young sake.

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