Jump to content


Photo

Draco & Wicca's Adventures


  • Please log in to reply
430 replies to this topic

#21 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:53 AM

Oh Gib. We'll be thinking of you. Can't think of anything more sad than your dog in pain. Glad you thought about Kim's vet, and his thoughts, but as he said, he's not there, and can only guess.





Kim has been very helpful. Even a little brave. :)

We had given him a summary but few details and he questioned us, to make sure we weren't jumping in to surgery too quickly. New puppy owners can be a bit too "motherly". (Guilty as charged.)

But, after filling Kim in on all the details of nearly two months of working with this he said he understands. He and his vet said it is the first case they know of in the AI Dogs. There have been other "growing pains" dis-eases; but all have grown out of it.

They also said, that the point we are at, having confirmed now with 7 count 'em seven Vets, that we should do it.

Wicca is getting so good at catching the Frisbee; after Monday it'll be weeks before she gets to even try it again!! :)

~~~~

I/we are gathering links to ideas of what all we can do with Wicca while she is convalescing! I haven't found any definitive resource book or website yet but am still looking. Star reminded me of the training videos she's pointed out before and they have already made a difference in our leash walking.

Let us know any thoughts you may have when you have any time free from the joy and drama of your own lives and AI Dogs!

Be well everyone. We'll check in later.

For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#22 Joanne Frances

Joanne Frances

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts

Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:03 PM

I have a story for you. I mentioned this in a past post. My son brought his lab to our house after surgery, and Tolinka knew immediately that something was wrong with his buddy Finn. On his instinctive own, Tolinka reacted by being very quiet around Finn, bringing toys to chew on together, lying quietly beside him, playing a game of "give and take away" while lying next to each other. We were all amazed. I bet you find that Draco will do the same. It's was beautiful sight to see the dogs have this understanding and knowing the others needs and capabilities at the moment. "The moment" is the important part to keep your eye on. They let each other know when things begin to get better, and become a bit more active with each other as time progresses. Tolinka would try, in the babiest of steps, to egg Finn on for more active play. If it didn't work, they would resume the "quiet play." Testing, testing, testing. :)

When is the surgery? Tolinka and I send speedy recovery wishes to Wicca, patience to Draco, and wisdom to you and Joan.


So sorry to hear about Wicca's shoulder problem...as if the spaying wasn't worry enough. But we had an experience similar to miz molly's last weekend. Normally, Namequa is unstoppable outdoors. She plays hard and pesters MooShoo endlessly for more play. When Moosh slipped and started limping last weekend, my first thought was how do I keep Nami from making things worse. But as if by magic, she just knew something was wrong and immediately slowed down, came calmly into the house, and let me pack him up for the vet's without once pushing or nipping at him. Her behavior kept up for as long as he felt bad, and when he was ready, she immediately went back to her old little sister behavior. Dogs are wonderfully empathetic creatures and far braver than most people I know. Wicca will come through it all and Draco will be a big help to you all as she does.

#23 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 04 November 2011 - 07:12 AM

So sorry to hear about Wicca's shoulder problem...Wicca will come through it all and Draco will be a big help to you all as she does.


Thank you.

Yes, we've had experience already with these two helping each other: Draco's leg-bite ordeal and Wicca's spaying. They do empathy amazingly well.

Like a mantra, over and over again. "Wicca is blessed."

~~~~

Seems like there is a dynamic balance on the list. First one sub-group of people need support and another group has the support to offer. Then, it changes, those who once needed support now have experience with which to offer support.

Ah, experience.

One of my favorite authors, Aldous Huxley wrote, "Experience is not what happens to people; it is what people do with what happens to them."

Thanks, everyone.

For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#24 woodrat

woodrat

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:NH
  • Interests:The dogs, photography, drawing, taxidermy, needle felting, hiking, dog behavior.

Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:08 AM

Thanks for keeping us updated, Gib. I had been wondering how you guys were doing.

I can definitely understand the uncertainty of all parties as to whether or not to go ahead with surgery, but with 7 vets behind the decision I think it's pretty safe to say you've made the correct one.

When you first posted about her diagnoses I chatted with my employer about the disease as we'd been having a continuing conversation about over-exercising puppies and what might be 'too much' (I was concerned because I've seen T pull up to a halt with a whine and a brief limp every once in a while), and she said that one of her first dogs had OCD in both shoulders as a young thing. She assured me it was an easy fix and nothing to be too concerned about because the surgery itself is pretty easy and very successful. Her dog never had any issues afterwards for the rest of his life. Granted of course that requiring surgery is never an ideal situation, but at least the prognosis is good.

It is certainly a good opportunity at least to do some fine tuning with training. Maybe you could find some creative 'tricks' to train her? I've seen lots of dogs trained to do things like pick up cans and put them in the trash and other similar tasks; just little things that don't mean a whole lot to a dog, but give the brain a little extra work! ( - here's a cute video with some ideas :))

Another thought might be giving her some puzzle toys to play with. I've always thought the ones made by this woman: http://www.nina-ottosson.com/ were extremely interesting, but they are just so expensive. You might be able to get some ideas from some of the simpler ones and perhaps figure out how to make something similar at home if you're the kind of person (or know anyone who is) that likes to make things.
Ex: - tennis balls hiding treats in muffin pans! Simple, but gives even just five minutes of brain work.
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related - this is one I've always wanted to teach Cairo, but never got around to it. How can a dog go wrong with nosework!

Draco's got his work cut out for him now, but I'm sure he'll do wonderfully at keeping her company (gently) while she recuperates. Please let us know how the surgery goes, I'll be thinking of you all.

#25 Nessa

Nessa

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 355 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Fort Bragg, North Carolina
  • Interests:Photography, Sewing, Cooking, Willow, Family!

Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:59 PM

Gib, I am so sorry about Wicca, but she is a strong pup. She'll be fine so long as she has you, Joan, and Draco. Lots of good thoughts coming your way.

Blessed be.
"I don't want to see new things, I want to see things new."

#26 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 04 November 2011 - 01:44 PM

Thanks, everyone!

In the meantime, we have a couple "last" playdates scheduled this weekend!! :)

For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#27 miz molly

miz molly

    Advanced Member

  • Moderator
  • 3344 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:ben lomond california
  • Interests:My 4 legged friends, photography, music, painting, hiking, fishing, the beach, and a good cup of coffee in the early morning.

Posted 04 November 2011 - 05:08 PM

Our fingers (mine) and paws (Tolinka's) are crossed for Wicca. Hoping for a very fast recovery. I hope these "last" play dates are full of fun. Take some extra special treats along. :-) Sending best wishes and good luck to Wicca.
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#28 gramtot

gramtot

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:East Lyme, CT
  • Interests:Carpentry, Grandkids, Sewing (currently purses and totes, dolls), Tai Chi, Walking, Home Improvement, Dogs and dog training, Horses (not currently an owner, however)

Posted 05 November 2011 - 05:43 AM

I'll certainly be thinking of you all next week! Little Wicca will most likely sail through while her two legged people take on the weight of the world until the outcome is clear. Nevertheless, my heart goes out to Wicca as much as to you. It's so hard to see them hurting even a little and it sounds like Wicca has had her share of not so little pains because of the OCD. Good luck to all.

And here I've been wondering about how to keep Denakka quiet after his neutering. Whenever I get frustrated with that, I'll be thinking of you and it'll remind me that my "problem" is nothing since it's so short-lived in comparison. Take care, all.

#29 Starghoti

Starghoti

    Jasper and K'ne's Mom

  • Moderator
  • 2344 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:camping, crafts, computers, dogs and training, gardening, nature, & being outdoors

    There is a difference between my personality and my attitude.
    My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

Posted 05 November 2011 - 01:38 PM

Oh man, Gib!
Well, if anyone is gonna be a "first" it would be you guys.. *chagrined laughter*

Our thoughts are with you all- especially Wicca!
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#30 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 07 November 2011 - 09:34 PM

Hey, everyone!

Draco and Joan have gone up to bed so I have a moment to send an update.

We got a call around 4:30pm that Wicca had woken up from her anesthetic and the surgery had gone smoothly.

The doctor found the OCD's signature flap of loose cartilage in the right shoulder and some mild arthritis. The left shoulder also had the flap, but also had the more advanced "Joint mouse" -- a piece of cartilage or bone that has sloughed off and is free floating in the knee joint. (I've had one of those! The pain is drop-you-to-the-floor, 10 on the Richter scale.) The left shoulder also showed some mild arthritis.

Joan asked for the prognosis for her long term mobility. He said that the breed tends to live a long and healthy life. When Wicca is elderly, she may show (he emphasize may) some signs like being stiff on a cold morning.

In other words, we just get through this next 6 week healing cycle and she's as good as new. We pick her up at 2:00pm tomorrow.

Thanks for all the suggestions and links.

This too shall pass.

For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#31 gramtot

gramtot

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:East Lyme, CT
  • Interests:Carpentry, Grandkids, Sewing (currently purses and totes, dolls), Tai Chi, Walking, Home Improvement, Dogs and dog training, Horses (not currently an owner, however)

Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:44 AM

I'm so happy to hear that Wicca's surgery went so well. Now the fun begins--keeping her from her stitches and keeping her quiet! It's minor compared to your situation, but Denakka was neutered yesterday and he is convinced that he is in trouble all the time--poor little guy! I slept with him last night--mostly on the floor--to keep him from licking the stitches and to comfort him. Let me tell you the floor is no place to sleep when you are 68! Ugh. He's frightened of the elisabethan collar so I'm using an inflatable. He can still get to the stitches but it's more difficult than nothing. How do you put a dog in a crate with an e-collar anyway! I'm hoping he stops looking like the world for him has ended; it breaks my heart. Today I'll try to make as normal as possible so that he gets the message that this is no big deal. Such a sensitive guy--can I still call him a Dude? A few days for me and Denakka; more for you and Joan! I hope Wicca has a devil may care attitude instead of the world is coming to an end--makes it even harder on the two leggers and as we all know, it's hard enough when one of our marvelous four-leggers are not 100%.

Keep us posted on Wicca's progress. I'm so glad you caught this when you did and got the surgery--always such a hard decision. The pain must have been awful for the little girl. No more of that awful pain; just the more subtle pain of healing and then PAIN FREE! YIPPEE.

#32 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:32 AM

He's frightened of the elisabethan collar so I'm using an inflatable. He can still get to the stitches but it's more difficult than nothing.


When Draco was neutered, he figured out how to use the edge of the "collar of shame" to scratch his itch.....

Somewhere on the forum here is a link to a description of making an effective collar out of carpet. I tried it on Draco and later on Wicca and it works pretty good.


But for both of our pooches, after the third day, they didn't need it anymore.

~~~~

We pick up Wicca at 2:00pm. More sometime after that....

For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#33 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:03 AM

..... the surgery had gone smoothly.

The doctor found the OCD's signature flap of loose cartilage in the right shoulder and some mild arthritis. The left shoulder also had the flap, but also had the more advanced "Joint mouse" -- a piece of cartilage or bone that has sloughed off and is free floating in the knee joint. (I've had one of those! The pain is drop-you-to-the-floor, 10 on the Richter scale.) The left shoulder also showed some mild arthritis.

This too shall pass.




My mistake -- the joint mouse wasn't in Wicca's knee, it was in her left shoulder. Mine was in my knee.

Draco can only concentrate for just a few minutes and then he has to go look for Wicca. Right in the middle of a good tug, he'll just drop the rope and go sit by the gate.

Joan and I, too.


She'll be home soon.

For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#34 Starghoti

Starghoti

    Jasper and K'ne's Mom

  • Moderator
  • 2344 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:camping, crafts, computers, dogs and training, gardening, nature, & being outdoors

    There is a difference between my personality and my attitude.
    My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:36 AM

Aww big brother is worried about little sister.
Glad to hear they found what they expected. Also glad to know that it can (and was) repaired.
Our thoughts are with you in the recovery time.. :)
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#35 maria

maria

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 691 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:PA
  • Interests:My AIDog Chhaya...herbs, gardening, the outdoors.

Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:57 AM

Gib, thanks for the updates thinking so much about Wicca and your family.....sorry you have to go through all this but soooo glad Wicca has such a wonderful family that loves her so deeply that they would do anything for her!!! Not all dogs are this blessed!!!

Sending lots of hugs!!!
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

-Ancient Indian Proverb-

#36 Karen

Karen

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1704 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Woodinville WA
  • Interests:Photography, drawing, painting, cooking, dog training, film making

Posted 08 November 2011 - 01:20 PM

This stressful drama is drawing to a close, which has to be a relief. I'm glad she didn't wait any longer for the procedure - it's better to get stuff like that out of the way if you are going to do it. Good luck to all 4 of you while she recuperates and returns to her delightful (and now pain-free) self.

Karen
I do beautiful, wild, unique abstract photography.
www.karenhyams.com
And here's my dog Danza
custom_dog_nema2_small.jpg

#37 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:58 PM

Sssshhhhh, Wicca's sleeping.

I'll get pictures tomorrow.

We picked her up at 2:00pm. When they brought her out of the back room, she was full head and ears up and pranced down the hallway like nothing is the matter.

Except almost her entire front half is shaved. She has just a couple of little, tiny spots on each side that have a couple of small sutures.

OK, then, now for two weeks in the crate.

The doctor who did the surgery does both arthroscopy and open surgeries. He said that one of the "joint mice" in her left shoulder would not have been found with open surgery. Because they went in with the scope they were able to see it and remove it.

~~~~
And, as we supposed, Draco has been extremely gentle. In the car on the way home they lay nose to nose just looking at each other.

More soon.

For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#38 miz molly

miz molly

    Advanced Member

  • Moderator
  • 3344 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:ben lomond california
  • Interests:My 4 legged friends, photography, music, painting, hiking, fishing, the beach, and a good cup of coffee in the early morning.

Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:05 PM

I love these dogs, ........they just know. :) observe, trust.......
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#39 Karen

Karen

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1704 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Woodinville WA
  • Interests:Photography, drawing, painting, cooking, dog training, film making

Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:42 AM

And, as we supposed, Draco has been extremely gentle. In the car on the way home they lay nose to nose just looking at each other.


Awww.....that is such a sweet picture. Get well soon, Wicca!
I do beautiful, wild, unique abstract photography.
www.karenhyams.com
And here's my dog Danza
custom_dog_nema2_small.jpg

#40 Gib

Gib

    Advanced Member

  • IIDOBA Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 653 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lynnwood,WA
  • Interests:Hiking, snorkeling, grandchildren, dogs, community, computers and ....

Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:21 PM

A couple of pictures; not too many words.

First 24 hours down; next 984 to go!


Wicca's Right Shoulder -- there's matching incisions on the other side...

Wicca_Right_Shoulder_Small.jpg


Not everyone wants to see a close-up of the flaps of cartilage the doctor pulled out. I tried to make the picture life size. Don't know if it will translate.

Wicca_Right_Shoulder_cartilage_closeup.jpg

For her little shoulders, those are huge. You can see the two large flaps and one small one. There's another small one that can't be seen in this picture.

With out all those "rocks in her shoes", she is already wanting to play tug with Draco.

But, so far, not much sleep but it's been pretty easy.

More soon.

Edited by Gib, 09 November 2011 - 04:41 PM.


For Now,

Gib Curry

ф

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users