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Draco & Wicca's Adventures


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#1 Gib

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 07:39 AM

Mostly pictures....



Joan worked with Wicca for the first time on our little balance beam....
Wicca_Beam_Joan_2.jpg


The next day, Wicca did it herself....
Wicca_Beam_3.jpg


As has been mentioned -- they do love to climb!!
Climbing.jpg


After a rowdy play period, they are resting but alert...
Alert_and_Resting.JPG


Not a great picture, but Wicca lay stretched out like this for a long time...
Stretched_Out.jpg


A nice picture of them looking at me....
Wicca___Draco.jpg

Woodrat, you posted a picture of Tamarack that looks almost exactly like this pose....
Wicca_Sleeping_on_Dad__s_Foot.jpg


I also just put up a couple of videos on the Facebook AI Dog page.... https://www.facebook...ericanindiandog


Dogs are ready for a walk. Gotta go...

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"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#2 woodrat

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 04:28 AM

I love that one of Wicca lying down - it looks like she's in the middle of bounding across a field in play, except that she's on her side! She has very interesting coloration, I love the tan inside her ears. So pretty.. and Draco is stunning as per usual. Couldn't help but laugh at the chair pic..

The shoe one is priceless, and of course, so familiar.

#3 Joanne Frances

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 07:01 PM

Thanks, Gib, for posting the Facebook link. I didn't know there was an Amer Indian Dog Facebook page and I found quite a few helpful videos on it. I'm still struggling with the good play thing...trying to identify caution signs for calling time outs.

What was Wicca's birthday? My Namequa was born on June 7th and she looks so much like Wicca it is amazing...except Wicca looks a bit older in the photos. Nami is still only 13-1/2 lbs.

#4 Gib

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 05:54 AM

Thanks, Gib, for posting the Facebook link. I didn't know there was an Amer Indian Dog Facebook page and I found quite a few helpful videos on it. I'm still struggling with the good play thing...trying to identify caution signs for calling time outs.

What was Wicca's birthday? My Namequa was born on June 7th and she looks so much like Wicca it is amazing...except Wicca looks a bit older in the photos. Nami is still only 13-1/2 lbs.



Wicca was born April 22nd of Niki x Jay Silverheels. She's 4 1/2 months and just over 25 pounds.


When I searched, there were actually two AI Dog pages on Facebook. The one I posted to is, I think, the "official" one. (Is there an official AI Dog Facebook page, anyone?)

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#5 Gib

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:02 PM

I'm posting a few videos of Draco and Wicca on the American Indian Dog Facebook page at: https://www.facebook...ericanindiandog

For Now,

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"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#6 Karen

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:53 PM

Wow, Gib, Wicca is soooo pretty, and I love her expression. I can't wait to meet her!
I do beautiful, wild, unique abstract photography.
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#7 Starghoti

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 01:55 AM

So much fun!
Jasper and I had a blast watching the videos-
Thanks for sharing ;)
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#8 Gib

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 05:55 AM

Today is Wicca's spay surgery. I've been reading everything I can on the web about post-operative care and we are ready. (Right!)

I did a long session searching for post-operative care for our female AI Dogs and found a couple of things. 10-14 days of limited activity and wearing the cone is what almost everyone says. How does that convert to AI Dog time?

I work (sort of) from home. Joan's office is a couple of miles away. This morning we stood and hugged for a long time -- we don't like putting our baby under the knife.

We know it's such a common surgery and Wicca will be fine it's just that our empathy and compassion dials are turned up right now to Super-Maximum.

So, I'm just simply asking for a little input and encouragement!

Thanks, everyone, in advance, for all your loving and healing thoughts and wishes. And any words of wisdom or insight.

Edited by Gib, 13 October 2011 - 05:57 AM.


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#9 maria

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 07:35 AM

Today is Wicca's spay surgery. I've been reading everything I can on the web about post-operative care and we are ready. (Right!)

I did a long session searching for post-operative care for our female AI Dogs and found a couple of things. 10-14 days of limited activity and wearing the cone is what almost everyone says. How does that convert to AI Dog time?

I work (sort of) from home. Joan's office is a couple of miles away. This morning we stood and hugged for a long time -- we don't like putting our baby under the knife.

We know it's such a common surgery and Wicca will be fine it's just that our empathy and compassion dials are turned up right now to Super-Maximum.

So, I'm just simply asking for a little input and encouragement!

Thanks, everyone, in advance, for all your loving and healing thoughts and wishes. And any words of wisdom or insight.


Gib
I am right there with you and Joan....having Chhaya spayed and away from the house overnight was the worst thing....but she came back fine and was VERY happy to be home...the hardest thing was keeping her from running after she started feeling better....the leash was the only thing I could do....inside the house and outside....she was attached to me constantly....lots of chew toys and bones helped the frustration. Finally after, if I remember correctly the 7th day, I left her out without being on the leash and told her to be easy.....well that lasted about 1 second and she was off and running full tilt around the yard....I was so scared she would tear something....I think it was starting to hurt and she slowed down and I got her settled....after that initial burst I think she understood why I was trying to keep her settled....I still leashed her when we first went out then unhooked her after we got outside....she was better after that. That was the hardest thing for her since she LOVES and I mean LOVES to run.....good luck and I will be thinking of you all! Keep us posted!!!
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#10 Starghoti

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 08:08 AM

And LOTS of puzzle toys with kibble in them. (I resorted to that when JJ was recovering from his Neuter, helped him work out a little energy, and took up some time for him.)

And even a regular old leg-bone with all the marrow already chewed/licked out can be useful. Just smear some peanutbutter in the inside, and she will work her little tongue forever trying to get the memory of all the flavor out! LOL

And it is a great time to work on a whole list of obedience and fun trick training skills.
And check out this woman's youtube channel!!! Awesomeness!

KIKOPUP
I know I've linked her before, but she is an awesome inspiration for training and methodology.

Have fun, and the whole Sheldrake Pack sends their best recovery wishes!!! :D
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#11 Allison

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:32 AM

Don't give in. Be sure her scar is healed, and won't tear. After a good few days, when you feel comfortable, at least keep her in the cone while resting where she could lick and tear the sutures. REALLY better safe than sorry.

I am extra cautious because I have seen the worst, where a female tears open her sutures, and pulls out her guts. Had to be put down. I still get upset to think about it, and that was several years ago. Don't ever want to see it happen again.

Remember, that after they look like they are healing, those sutures start to itch. That is the time to put the cone back on while resting. I think running, under supervision, would be fine, but it is while resting that they start to get curious.

If you keep that area clean, I believe it may help to reduce the itching.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#12 miz molly

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 06:44 AM

Today is Wicca's spay surgery.

I found that a couple of days after surgery, when their energy starts to come back, I would play with Tolinka very quietly. I did this a lot during the day, and it served two purposes. One, he learned what I call "soft play" which we still do to this day. An example: I took a toy, gave it to him and gently played a game of give and take game. NOT a tug of war, NOT fetch, just very quiet, like "put it in my hand" then give it back to him. It's a great time for her to learn other quiet teachings of different "tricks" etc. The other thing I learned is that the constant attention took the edge off his energy. The mental energy that he spent figuring things out definitely helped to ease the desire to run and play. Good luck to Wicca and the your family. All will be well. Miz M and Tolinka send their best and a a fast recovery.
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#13 Gib

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 06:58 AM

'morning everyone,

So, last Thursday, we had Wicca spayed (which went well and from which she is mostly recovered) and while under anesthetic she had a different, somehow more specific set of x-rays taken of her long sore front shoulders. The recent, first set of x-rays were, we were told, good but inconclusive.

Now, we've been through the gauntlet of veterinarians and now have had 4 vets confirm that Wicca has a puppy disease called OCD. It is typically a disease in 4-8 month old large, fast growing breeds, but as we now know, it can affect smaller, Wicca sized dogs as well.

We were hoping for a diagnosis of Pano (a puppy growing pains disease they grow out of), but it is OCD. In either case it means essentially the same thing: 6-8 weeks of near-inactivity for Wicca.

Wicca will be 6 months old tomorrow. We now have to take her as soon as possible for arthroscopic surgery on both of her shoulders.

Where? That we are not quite sure of yet. For some reason it's about twice as expensive in Seattle as it is in other areas of the country. It requires a board certified specialist, etc.

We received an excellent referral from our Southern California friends, Sid (a vet himself) and Paula, to a great vet in Seattle. We had her read the x-rays and she confirmed the diagnosis of OCD (OsteoChondritis Dissecans). There is no scientific agreement as to the source/origin of the disease. It might be genetic. It might be nutritional. A few references said perhaps environmental.

This vet recommended surgery as soon as we could arrange it. She also confirmed that she firmly recommends arthroscopy as the vastly preferred method of surgery. She herself doesn't do arthroscopy so recommended a vet who does.

We saw the surgeon-vet yesterday (Thursday). He is a young guy and has done numerous of these surgeries. He confirmed the OCD diagnosis and said we should consider getting the surgery done as soon as possible.

From one typical webpage:

Postop care
∙During the first 6 to 8 weeks after surgery, activity is restricted to short leash walks outside. Running, jumping, or rough play is forbidden. Gradually increasing the activity, following the eighth week after surgery, allows for a safe return of function of the operated limb.


The vet yesterday said if the above regimen is followed, prognosis calls for virtually 100% recovery. There is some slight tendency for arthritis in the later stages of life, but only very slight in comparison to normally healthy and active dogs. And, because it's in the shoulders, Wicca, even if she develops arthritis in her shoulders, will likely be asymptomatic.

Now all we have to do is get through the 6-8 week recovery.

Joan and I are going just a little pre-crazy just thinking about how we keep Wicca down for 6-8 weeks. How do we keep her and Draco from their normal runs and wrestlings?

The doctor today said that after the initial two weeks, she can't really "hurt" anything but she could retard her recovery. That's why 6-8 weeks of restricted activity is the goal to fully optimize recovery.

So, stay tuned. We'll let you know the who's what's and when's as we know them.

(This Forum is going to have to act as our OCD support group?!!? ) :lol:

(I foresee lots of leash training and puzzle games in Wicca's future!)

Please ask questions if you have them. And please, please, if you have answers let us know right away!!

For Now,

Gib Curry

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"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#14 miz molly

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 10:21 AM

Have you checked out U.C. Davis here in California for any information? They are a wonderful source of information, and treatment for for problematic medical situations in the 4 legged world.
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#15 woodrat

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:41 PM

Oh poor Wicca! A relief at least that it's a condition that can be 'fixed'. Let us know how she does with the surgery and best of luck keeping her calm for those 6-8 wks (yikes!).. :lol:

#16 Starghoti

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 12:00 PM

All our best wishes and warm tail-wagging thoughts to Wicca the wonder puppy.

You will have Lots of opportunity to work on your shaping training.. :lol:

Keep us posted on her progress
"There is no such thing as a hyper dog. There are only exercise dependent dogs."
 
"Where I go, Dog follows. Where I stop, Dog settles. When I am lost, Dog finds me. When I am joyful, Dog joins me. Who I am, Dog knows. What I need, Dog becomes. Dog is great. Dog is good. Dog is everything. I am Dog codependent."
 

#17 miz molly

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 05:56 AM

Joan and I are going just a little pre-crazy just thinking about how we keep Wicca down for 6-8 weeks. How do we keep her and Draco from their normal runs and wrestlings?


I have a story for you. I mentioned this in a past post. My son brought his lab to our house after surgery, and Tolinka knew immediately that something was wrong with his buddy Finn. On his instinctive own, Tolinka reacted by being very quiet around Finn, bringing toys to chew on together, lying quietly beside him, playing a game of "give and take away" while lying next to each other. We were all amazed. I bet you find that Draco will do the same. It's was beautiful sight to see the dogs have this understanding and knowing the others needs and capabilities at the moment. "The moment" is the important part to keep your eye on. They let each other know when things begin to get better, and become a bit more active with each other as time progresses. Tolinka would try, in the babiest of steps, to egg Finn on for more active play. If it didn't work, they would resume the "quiet play." Testing, testing, testing. :lol:

When is the surgery? Tolinka and I send speedy recovery wishes to Wicca, patience to Draco, and wisdom to you and Joan.
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#18 gramtot

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 06:53 AM

I am so sorry to hear about Wicca's ailment but so happy to know there is a solution. You description of the recovery certainly put my worrying about Denakka's neutering recovery in perspective! Just as I was wondering how I'd keep him quiet, I read you post. My heart goes out to little Wicca, AND to you and Joan. I expect these things are much easier for our 4-legged friends who are so good at living in the moment! Denakka and I send our love and good thought across the country right to you and Joan and Wicca. Good luck with everything--we'll be watching for updates!

#19 Gib

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:59 AM

Greetings, All.

I've had little time recently but have just finished catching up on all the posts. Wow!!

Tamarack, Danza, Denakka, Willow, everyone & everydog.... Blessings to you all. Be well. Be safe. Thank you for the inspiration and support.

Did I cover everybody?

We've had our own drama going on -- here's a summary....

~~~~

Four vets looked at two sets of x-rays and did physical examinations on Wicca.

All agreed, that Wicca has OCD.

All agreed, that if it is OCD, then she should be operated on as soon as possible.

Kim and his vet say that no AI Dog has ever been diagnosed with OCD. There have been dogs that showed puppy lameness but all have outgrown it.

Wicca was spay on October 14th. We kept her extremely quiet for 2-3 days and kept her low-key for a few more days. Since then she's been pretty normal. Including a couple of Sunday's when she not only survived two vigorous play dates but expressed none of her former symptoms.

Kim and his vet suggest waiting until absolutely necessary. That being said, Kim agreed that if it is truly OCD, then we have no choice but to operate.

We seem to agree that we really trust and can talk with a Vet we met, Dr. Tamara Walker. She confirms that if we have a positive diagnosis of OCD, then the sooner we operate the better.

But, she also said that for any good surgeon the overriding principle is that you don't operate if there are no symptoms. If Wicca isn't showing symptoms; then we don't operate. If symptoms re-occur; we re-evaluate and operate as necessary. And she guaranteed that the symptoms would return.

So, we began thinking that we may be able to escape without surgery, then......

Then, we got word back from Sid. He and his radiologist also concur it is OCD and the sooner the surgery the better. I may have left one out but we are up to 7 Vets now have confirmed the diagnosis.

Then, last Sunday, our neighbor's boxer, Ari, is over for a play date and Wicca is doing great running and wrestling with the two bigger dogs. Suddenly, she lets out a painful sounding yelp, takes maybe two steps, and simply lays down. It was definitely her left shoulder and she was laying on her left side. As I knelt down beside her I could see that her left foot was shaking and her toes were quivering. And she lay perfectly still, not quite groaning and not quite whining.

She had the saddest, pained look in her eye. She didn't want picked up, so I comforted her best I could while she lay there.

Within 15 minutes, she was back up and running around. That's one of the weird "symptoms" of the disease.


But, now we know she has to have bi-lateral OCD arthroscopic surgery on both shoulders and she goes in on Monday morning. The strictly inhibited recuperation is 6-8 weeks; the first two weeks are critical for her successful recuperation. Nothing more than potty-walks for two weeks.

We'll post surgery results Tuesday when we get her back....

~~~~

Here's a picture of Draco & Wicca I took yesterday in Edmonds.

Draco___Wicca_in_Edmonds.jpg

For Now,

Gib Curry

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"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

#20 Allison

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:01 AM

Oh Gib. We'll be thinking of you. Can't think of anything more sad than your dog in pain. Glad you thought about Kim's vet, and his thoughts, but as he said, he's not there, and can only guess.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

--David Dunning




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