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Picture Request: Your Dogs Teeth


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If your able could you post a photo of your dog's mouth and upper teeth similar to the ones I've posted of Darmok's? I want to show them to his vet next time we go in. She's thinking about sending us to a doggie Dentist but she hasn't decided yet. I'd like to show her what "normal" looks like for our breed. Darmok was asleep on his back when I took the closed mouth photo and the open mouth took about 5 tries. You can see how his bottom canines are making dents in the roof of his mouth.

IMG_20180220_090821897.jpg

IMG_20180220_090832197.jpg

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I couldn't get the camera and the mouth at the same time but I see what you mean about Darmok's K9's making holes. Cake does not have that. Waki is 6 and his K9's are a little more blunt than in his youth so not a problem. Do you feed him raw? If that's ok with you maybe give him some chicken drum sticks or chicken wings once a week. It will probably scrub out that tarter and maybe shave enough off those K9s. It's not such a big thing that the Vet has sent you off to get them filed so maybe let natural eating help things along?

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I only know about human dentition as a dental hygienist, so bear with my (perhaps inaccurate) assessment of Darmok's teeth. The problem is alignment and that overbite. There is also a narrowing of the upper dental arch behind the upper canines. In humans, if there is a jaw size discrepancy (short lower jaw) this can be corrected with a Frankel device, an orthodontic appliance that stresses the lower jaw promoting longitudinal growth. This needs to be done at a relatively young age while the facial bones are still growing. If this is not done, the lower teeth will indeed come into contact with the roof of the mouth. Also in a human, the forces of sucking, chewing, and swallowing cause the powerful muscles of the tongue to push outward against the dental arch as the bones grow, giving it proper form. If this doesn't happen, as in the case of a child that is a mouth breather due to enlarged adenoids, or has some other oral malformation, the upper arch will be narrowed, not nicely curved outward and around. This might have happened in Darmok's case with the overbite causing an irregular swallowing motion and not enough force in the right places to open and form that arch properly. Hope there are some simple solutions for Darmok if anything at all has to be done.

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Wow sounds like a whole lot more going on than I knew. This is why I love the Forum..

 

 

PS We've always given our dogs bones. Even pups. Raw drum Sticks and chicken wings don't take long to eat but a beef rib or knee cap can last all day (I used smoked in the USA and occasionally raw beef ribs from the market or smoked knee caps). They do tend to nurse them. Don't know if that helps. There are inherent risks to giving bones but they do clean the teeth (we've needed zero professional cleanings in 15 years vs annually before going to this system). Little guys like AIDs should not get weight baring bones (cow leg bones, etc). We're always around when they get the bones and we throw them out after. We've had no problems. That could be some sucking and chewing that simulates natural life. Just a thought..

 

One more thought.. Put over bite into the search field. There have been some AIDs with over bites over the years so it could be something that needs intervention. I do recall perhaps 2 posts (2 dogs). Send a photo on to Kim. He'll want to know and probably can give some other thoughts on it.

Edited by Sherab
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These malformations happen under even the most ideal breeding conditions, which would be natural selection. A few years ago there was a wolf incident in the Boundary Waters National Park in Minnesota. A group of young 20-somethings were camping and canoeing. One night as they slept, out in the open on the ground in sleeping bags, a wolf came into their camp and started gnawing on the top of one guy's head. They all woke up and were able to drive the wolf off and get help, and they were able to describe the wolf. They all said it looked like something was wrong with the mouth. Forest Service tracked down and killed the wolf, and it not only had an over bite, but a severe cross bite. The jaws did not line up at all. The wolf was alone, probably rejected by the pack, and could not hunt and kill prey effectively.

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I'm very informed about Darmok's overbite and dental issues as well as all other posts in this forum going back years. Kim informed me of this overbite when he offered me this puppy. I'm asking for photos of "normal".

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Even with the less than perfect quality of our pictures, the vet should see the difference in the shape and proportions between Darmok and Kaposia's maxilla and mandible. We only kept trying for about two minutes for the photos. Wish I had the camera in hand when she yawns.

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Since this issue was brought up and is being discussed, I would like to say something here for those new to the forum, scratching their head and saying, "What the....".

 

Every once in a while, a puppy may have an overbite, most are minor and never cause an issue and possibly even correct itself as the pup grows into an adult. Even rarer is the pup with a severe overbite such as Darmok. As DarmokElizabethontheocean stated, Kim did inform her of the overbite when he offered the puppy.

 

Kim says there have been only a few AIDog pups in the last 20 years with a severe overbite and all have done well when following the simple instructions he provided the puppy owners. The following is the quote from Kim on the recommended care of an overbite:

 

Quote Kim La Flamme

We know how vet’s tend to build these types of things up; don’t let them, this is a very simple issue that is a very easy fix, don’t let them send you to an expensive dentist. All they need to do is while they are under during spay / neuter, just grind those teeth down that are hitting the gums or the roof of the mouth.

 

Kim La Flamme ~ Founder/Trustee of the AIDog breed for over 50 years - www.indiandogs.com

AIDog Owner's Forum - http://www.iidoba.org/forums/index.php?app=uportal

 

 

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Sorry but that was a no-go here...I had already brushed him after our hike which he felt was completely unnecessary and then i tried to photo his mouth---no way...now he side eyes me and leaves the room if I come within 5 feet of him -sorry we tried--good luck!

 

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Darmok's vet is a very skilled and practical woman. She's all about the watch and weight method which I completely agree with. He's seeing her tomorrow for his Banefield twice yearly checkup and vaccines. I'll keep you posted but am pretty sure we will just continue to watch and wait. He doesn't appear to have any difficulty eating unless you count getting potato peels off the floor, which he somehow manages to do - lol. He'll be getting his first dental cleaning in a couple of months as well. I'll talk to her about the option of grinding that one tooth down if she thinks that's even necessary.

 

And just to be sure there is no misunderstanding with any new people Kim and I had a long conversation about Darmok's overbite, which Kim discovered when Darmok was about 4 weeks old, including options for care as he got older. I made an informed decision to buy him. I very thankful to Kim for this puppy.

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I don't know if these pics are what you were looking for, just some pics off my phone -

 

Coffey bite alignment_20170820.jpg

Coffey bite alignment_20180224.jpg

Coffey bottom canine top canine align_20170814.jpg

Coffey top teeth_20170820.jpg

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I couldn't get the camera and the mouth at the same time but I see what you mean about Darmok's K9's making holes. Cake does not have that. Waki is 6 and his K9's are a little more blunt than in his youth so not a problem. Do you feed him raw? If that's ok with you maybe give him some chicken drum sticks or chicken wings once a week. It will probably scrub out that tarter and maybe shave enough off those K9s. It's not such a big thing that the Vet has sent you off to get them filed so maybe let natural eating help things along?

Here is Tayamni cleaning her teeth (note: they were sparkling white until I had to give her a Vet prescription for a few months once!)

 

Tayamni_20170920_1942104.jpg

Edited by Denise E.
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Those look like some sharp teeth! I give Darmok a variety of things to clean his teeth. I also fiddle with his teeth/mouth on a regular basis to keep him accustomed to it so he'll let the vet examine his mouth/teeth during check ups.

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Denise- lol Thanks! The one on his back is very helpful! And thank you to everyone else that took or tried to take photos. I know exactly how hard that can be.

 

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Both Tayamni & Coffey are Over (top front teeth in front of bottom). Their bottom teeth slant forward some to meet or almost meet the top teeth. I won't get any pictures of that before tomorrow though ....

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