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Dog Rescue In N.c. Claims To Be Ai Dog


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#1 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:31 AM

Good morning everyone!

A very close friend of mine owns and operates a large dog rescue in Greensboro, North Carolina and yesterday she was given a female whose owner claimed she is an American Indian dog. Missi has agreed to hold on to her until we can figure it out (Not sure she'll let this one go - they just lost one of their Shepherds) - and I wasn't sure if Kim would be interested in seeing her or not. Here are some pictures that Missi took of her yesterday and she has some of the markings - but looks like maybe this could be a mixed breed close to the AI but not...I am not the expert though and sooooo....any input?

Here are Sasha's pictures - she is beautiful and Missi says the pics do not do her justice.

Attached File  Sasha_Rescue_1_MV.jpg   70.96K   21 downloads
Attached File  Sasha_Rescue_2_MV.jpg   89.23K   32 downloads
Attached File  Sasha_Rescue_MV.jpg   91.59K   22 downloads
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#2 Allison

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:12 AM

Thanks Debi! I will send it on to Kim. North Carolina, eh? Does she know the name of the person who surrendered her, and why? Or maybe the person said where it came from? You can pm me with that info if you know it.

Got a feeling it may be one of Markel's hybrids, but I am not the expert.

Also, you might give her Kim's email. He would be glad to speak with her about it.

laflamme@earthlink.net

Geez, that's gotta be a hard job....dog rescue.
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#3 Allison

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 11:39 AM

Kim says definitely not AIDog, but so many of these hybrids are being marketed as our dogs...three last week IN RESCUES.

He says, yes please, have her get in touch with him. It is important that people know these are not our dogs.
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#4 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:39 AM

Kim says definitely not AIDog, but so many of these hybrids are being marketed as our dogs...three last week IN RESCUES.

He says, yes please, have her get in touch with him. It is important that people know these are not our dogs.



I am calling her today - she went yesterday to get more information on the dog. I believe this one was a foreclosure and they had to move to an apartment where they couldn't have pets.

Missi is amazing and this has been a lifelong dream of her's to help these animals. At any given time she may have 15-20 dogs on her property - 7 of them have become her "keepers"... she does a great job.

WOW three last week in rescues? That is soooooo not right. I will get Kim's information to her today and post any updates that come my way. Thank you!

Edited by Debi, 23 February 2009 - 04:46 AM.

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#5 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:55 AM

Thanks Debi! I will send it on to Kim. North Carolina, eh? Does she know the name of the person who surrendered her, and why? Or maybe the person said where it came from? You can pm me with that info if you know it.

Got a feeling it may be one of Markel's hybrids, but I am not the expert.

Also, you might give her Kim's email. He would be glad to speak with her about it.

laflamme@earthlink.net

Geez, that's gotta be a hard job....dog rescue.


For most it would be, but Missi has a special heart and soul and has done some great things! She's gone into "hot" rescues - kind of like a cat burglar - and taken abused dogs in the middle of the night - she stops on the side of the road anytime she sees boxes or bags and checks to make sure they aren't puppies, that's where a little one named Oddie came from, he was wrapped in barbwire and tossed to the side of the road - he is GREAT! After she rescues them she takes them home, cleans them up, has a vet check done and then keeps them in her kennel (and often in the house with her other 7 canines) until they are ready to go back to society. She works with them closely to re-socialize them and then holds pet adoption events! Missi is truly a puppy angel.

Will send more info to you as soon as she gets it to me!
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#6 Jamacee

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 06:25 AM

I would imagine it's tougher when you work somewhere where they are always pressed for space and the lil guys that no one comes to get get euthanized. Tell your friend thank you at least from me.

As far as missi - doesn't look like any AIDog I've ever seen - it does look like alot of these 'Hoax=Native American Indian Dogs' that seem to be all over the internet in rescues and in breeders - matter of fact I think there was one on the dog whisperer show - it was the big male that was so aggressive it bite (well tore his shirt sleeve to shreds missed him everytime) caeser 5 or six times - that video is on the link in one of the other threads.

Those poor hybrids - no one seems to realise how bad an idea hybrid breeding really is and how many get put down every year b/c people want to bring a piece of the wild into there homes. Can't set them free either b/c they would compromise the gene pool out there and not be as afraid of humans as they need to be.

Sad all around- missi seems sweet 'looking' hope she finds a forever home.

#7 Allison

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 07:37 AM

Those poor hybrids - no one seems to realise how bad an idea hybrid breeding really is and how many get put down every year b/c people want to bring a piece of the wild into there homes. Can't set them free either b/c they would compromise the gene pool out there and not be as afraid of humans as they need to be.


And now to have them marketed as our dogs! You can see how much extra work this is for Kim, and why he is so careful.
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#8 Allison

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:18 PM

Here's another interesting bit of news: Seems Kim got an email from a person saying that she just got her American Indian Dog puppy and asking what she has to do to register it and to start breeding......?

YES!!!! That's right!!!! There haven't been any pups yet!!!!!
You people would be the first to know!



I just talked to this [person] on the phone & she bought what she was told was an American Indian Dog – wolf hybrid. The breeder told her they where now being recognized & she could register them with the AIDog registry.

The breeder is someone in Riverside CA. that is now selling her wolf hybrids as North American Indian dog hybrids. She doesn’t have a web site, just has advertisements in the paper now & then. So this isn’t a big problem but just another one of the many that see the NAID’s & think they can now register or sell their wolf hybrids as Indian dogs ~



Kim La Flamme ~ founder/trustee of the AIDog breed for over 45 years -- www.indiandogs.com



Debi--Please tell your friend she has our greatest respect.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#9 Jamacee

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:13 PM

DOH! man that sucks...guess thats why it's best to do your research and alot of it. I almost got sucked into that myself but my research is what brought me here. Now I understand the difference.

#10 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:17 PM

Here's another interesting bit of news: Seems Kim got an email from a person saying that she just got her American Indian Dog puppy and asking what she has to do to register it and to start breeding......?

YES!!!! That's right!!!! There haven't been any pups yet!!!!!
You people would be the first to know!






Debi--Please tell your friend she has our greatest respect.



I will relay the message to Missi. It seems the previous owner of Sasha is not forthcoming on giving up information. It has Missi worried that she may have a hybrid - this added to what Kim has said and what I have told her...but to no avail - it looks like she will be keeping Sasha as her husband is becoming very attached (which is not usual). If there is anyone that can handle the breed, it will be Missi and Mark! :-)

As for the email - WOW - so there is actually someone out there that has the audacity to sell a pup and then give out the IIDOBA information...another reason I talk about our adventure in getting an AI pup as much as possible! Deters those who say they know someone who has one or that there is a breeder here in Michigan.

Alas - there will always be the "wannabe's"!
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#11 taylorRichie

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 06:16 PM

I found the true AIDogs by finding the NAIDs first...

I did a ton of research and that's what lead me here... but trust me, it's a lot easier to find the so called NAIDs than the AIDs...

Plus they're[naids] listed on dogbreedinfo.com which is what I've used for years as a starting point for dog research...

#12 Allison

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 06:24 PM

Thanks for the intel.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#13 judyk

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 07:13 PM

I will relay the message to Missi. It seems the previous owner of Sasha is not forthcoming on giving up information. It has Missi worried that she may have a hybrid - this added to what Kim has said and what I have told her...but to no avail - it looks like she will be keeping Sasha as her husband is becoming very attached (which is not usual). If there is anyone that can handle the breed, it will be Missi and Mark! :-)

As for the email - WOW - so there is actually someone out there that has the audacity to sell a pup and then give out the IIDOBA information...another reason I talk about our adventure in getting an AI pup as much as possible! Deters those who say they know someone who has one or that there is a breeder here in Michigan.

Alas - there will always be the "wannabe's"!


Karen Markel is the woman in Michigan that claimes she's a breeder of American Indian Dogs. My husband worked hand in hand with local authorities as well as the humane society to shut her down and it never happened - even though he was police chief and could attest that these dogs were not what she said they were, having our own to compare. She's a true piece of work.
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#14 Allison

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:23 AM

Hit this Song Dog Kennel ad for us:

dogbreedinfo

"A", then "American Indian Dog".


All those pictures are taken and used without La Flamme farms permission. We are dealing with that.

That good-looking gal in the western gear is the infamous Wendy. Only a couple of months ago she was announcing to the internet she had to quit working with Kim, because his lines were so inbred. Now, she's advertising "courtesy of La Flamme farms"! What a schister!



Hit the breeder ad.

Don't hit the Dingo rescue, if you can help it...<grin>. They should not be there, and we don't want to give them extra standing.

Thanks, again, for the tipoff, TR.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#15 Jamacee

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:58 AM

ooooh so that is the infamous wendy huh? Is she the one in europe who started mixing kims dogs w/ huskies and what not?

That is lame and shady. I also came across the same thing before I found the song dog site. Except I was looking at czechoslovakian wolfdogs and then found NAIDs (otherwise known as nads Bwahahaha) then finally through this actual link you posted allison I googled LaFlamme Farms and found song dog. My thinking was if the photos came courtesy of kim then better go to the source.

#16 taylorRichie

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:25 PM

Hit this Song Dog Kennel ad for us:

dogbreedinfo

"A", then "American Indian Dog".


When did that get put up? That's new... I swear it wasn't there before :(

I'd recommend contacting them, helping them make everything legit, and taking full advantage of their service. I personally feel it's a great site (for information)

#17 Allison

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:08 PM

When did that get put up? That's new... I swear it wasn't there before :(


You are right! It was put up in between your last post and this one. Thanks.

Their policy is very good. They mention this exact situation where a breeder steals pictures and info from a legitimate breeder, to advertise their non-legit practices. They are obviously not beginners to the trade, and we feel hopeful they will work with us.

Jamacee you must have seen our other one on pupclassifieds.com. We also had to wrestle with them for similar reasons, but all got straightened out, to the satisfaction of both parties.

We'll keep you informed.
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#18 DebiSlaughter

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:42 PM

Karen Markel is the woman in Michigan that claimes she's a breeder of American Indian Dogs. My husband worked hand in hand with local authorities as well as the humane society to shut her down and it never happened - even though he was police chief and could attest that these dogs were not what she said they were, having our own to compare. She's a true piece of work.


Judy,
So she is located up by you guys? I wondered what was going on with that situation...her name came up a few weeks ago in a conversation with one of my students whose parents are looking at getting a "true" AI pup from a Michigan breeder and that they were told her dogs are the ONLY true camp dog...I was tempted to argue - but instead just sent her the link to Song Dog Kennels. I just left Karen's website and think it is quite strange that she has the NAID registered with a patent! Bwahahaha

Wow...it is like the wars that used to ensue with other Mastiff owners at the AKC shows we boycotted years ago when we started raising them. The "Sibercaan" dogs she has listed are beautiful but it bothers me that they have been bred with so many lines that carry degenerative traits - this added to the fact that she has had wolf-hybrids - makes me wonder what her dogs really are today.

Alas - it is the dogs that I feel for - they are the ones who suffer those out to make a pretty dollar off their beauty. The backwards breeding that Kim does is one that I agree with wholeheartedly now that I have done the research. Our poor female mastiff had been basically inbred - although they called it line breeding and she stroked during her first delivery. She survived - but that is when we called it quits with breeders and had both of our dogs fixed!

I'm educating those around me and hope once Sol gets here it will be easier for them to see the differences in the NAID and the AI!

Edited by Debi, 24 February 2009 - 01:43 PM.

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#19 judyk

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 03:57 PM

Judy,
So she is located up by you guys? I wondered what was going on with that situation...her name came up a few weeks ago in a conversation with one of my students whose parents are looking at getting a "true" AI pup from a Michigan breeder and that they were told her dogs are the ONLY true camp dog...I was tempted to argue - but instead just sent her the link to Song Dog Kennels. I just left Karen's website and think it is quite strange that she has the NAID registered with a patent! Bwahahaha

Wow...it is like the wars that used to ensue with other Mastiff owners at the AKC shows we boycotted years ago when we started raising them. The "Sibercaan" dogs she has listed are beautiful but it bothers me that they have been bred with so many lines that carry degenerative traits - this added to the fact that she has had wolf-hybrids - makes me wonder what her dogs really are today.

Alas - it is the dogs that I feel for - they are the ones who suffer those out to make a pretty dollar off their beauty. The backwards breeding that Kim does is one that I agree with wholeheartedly now that I have done the research. Our poor female mastiff had been basically inbred - although they called it line breeding and she stroked during her first delivery. She survived - but that is when we called it quits with breeders and had both of our dogs fixed!

I'm educating those around me and hope once Sol gets here it will be easier for them to see the differences in the NAID and the AI!


No, Markel is located downstate. My husband was heavily involved when we lived in St. Clair Shores, where he was Police Chief.

She has the words NAID registered - which is perfectly legal to do.

There's not enough time to tell her story ... but then again, why waste time even talking about her.

No one can challenge anything that Kim currently does or has done in the past with any of his breeding lines. We called his idiot challengers the nazis!! I'm sure they still try to get on here too. Allison and her husband watch everyone that comes on as a 'guest' ! They truly are 'Big Brother' and deserve a hugh applause for everything that the two of them do. Do ya hear me, out there, Girlfriend????????

Judy K in Michigan
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#20 taylorRichie

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 06:17 PM

You are right! It was put up in between your last post and this one. Thanks.


I thought I was going crazy for a minute... wheew...

Here's the breeder I first contact... I believe it's the one in question

http://www.majesticview1.com/map.htm

I even emailed, and tried calling. I got no response from either. (blessing in disguise)

Shortly after this time, Markel began researching the lost dogs of the Native American peoples. Acquiring two actual camp or village dogs, from two separate Native American Nations, from Idaho and Colorado, she began to add, German Shepherd, Alaskan Malamute, Chinook and Siberian Husky to the two original Native dogs to produce what we know as today as the Native American Indian DogŪ


I think kim will get a big response from Dogbreedinfo Their primitive site (technologically speaking) is very mature, and is a google powerhouse when it comes to Researching Dog breeds :(

Edited by taylorRichie, 24 February 2009 - 06:20 PM.





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