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Another Pit Bull Attack


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#1 Allison

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 08:16 PM

I think most of you have heard about the two Pits that live behind us. They are constantly trouble, and although Coyo and I try to make friends, they throw themselves into the fence, trying to get at us.

Today, I let Coyo out, after a Squirrel that was on the bird feeder. It is a daily event, that we look forward to. I usually let him out, and he chases it through a couple trees, and then out of our yard. He barks for a bit, and then stops. If he keeps it up (the barking) I always go out, because I do not allow him to bark incessantly. Usually I say, "That's enough", and it stops.

Today, however, I went out to stop the extra barks, and I saw that the two Pits who live Kitty Corner, were out of their yard into our neighbors--directly behind, and at our fence. It wasn't Coyo, but they, who were barking.

It is a small fence......Coyo could easily jump it, but he has always respected boundaries. I was in my slippers, and pajamas....they were barking aggressively at Coyo, and attempting to come into our yard. I yelled, "NOOOOOOO", and started to run down, as Coyo ran to the fence, but before I could make it down the stairs, they had broken through my fence, and were both on Coyo.

I have worried about this for so long, I wondered what I would do. But in all honesty, I didn't think of anything but Coyo. I got down to the lower yard, and luckily, there was an old Hoe. Still, I was thinking of the dogs, and held the tool end in my hands, and used the handle to try and separate the dogs from Coyo. All the while yelling, at the top of my lungs, "Nooooo, Call Your Dogs!!!!! Help!!!!"

I separate one from Coyo, and I hear the owner saying, "where are they?"

I yell, "They are in my yard!!!!!!!

Here I am, battling side by side, with my dog, against two pits, and she sits in her house, and calls their names!?

I herd one through the fence, and then it was obvious to the other, that he was outnumbered and he loses momentum. It was Coyo and Me against him.

So I split him away, and pushed him through the fence, and then grab Coyo, and take him up to the house, as the fence is broken, and I couldn't be sure they wouldn't come back.

Needless to say, we were pretty shaken. I checked him all over. There is some fur missing, but I didn't find the puncture marks until later, when he started favoring his leg.

I cleaned the wound. There is more, and I'll tell you tomorrow. I'm so disgusted. We are alright, though.
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#2 Michelle

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 09:01 PM

Glad to hear everyone's OK, what a horrifying experience! I think your neighbor's owe you a new fence, one they have to make pit bull proof! When will people with aggressive pits get it?! Why own a vicious dog you can't control, or even keep in your own yard? It's like leaving a loaded gun out in the open! Sure, dog's have scuffles, but they should never get that ugly, and an owner should always respond quickly. And your neighbor just stayed in the house and let you fend her dogs off? I can understand how disgusted you would be. But I am so glad it wasn't any worse, hope Coyo heals well.

#3 Karen

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 11:34 PM

Yikes, Allison! I can't imagine how shaken you and Coyo must be. I'm glad it didn't turn out worse than it did - you are very brave!

My heart sinks when I hear of vicious pit bulls - it's not their faults that assholes want to own them. (Sorry if swearing isn't OK...) I've fostered damaged pit bulls, and there isn't a sweeter breed out there. Too bad there aren't harsher penalties for evil owners. :)

I'll be looking for updates. Keep us posted.

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#4 liz

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 01:59 AM

Oh Allison, How I feel for you and Coyo! Unfortunatley I only had my bare hands, but for days after I went out with a stick! I found it so awkward though to manage that and Shunka!

Have you reported it, these dogs are not under proper control, and please take Coyo to the Vet for antibiotics, puncture wounds can turn very, very nasty as I know when Shunka was bitten by a German Shepherd when he was very young.

This is what we thought the problem was with Shunka this time, a result of a bite from the Staffs, but I had made sure he had anti-biotics straight away after that attack anyway because he too suffered fur loss (and skin!)

At least they can not get into my yard, but walking Shunka the other day, I was in a friends yard and was just about to take him through the gate when the two staffs were suddenly there trying to get through it!

It was the same friends who gave me a good stiff gin and tonic after the last attack!

Please, please report it Allison, these dogs are dangerous and not under control, why should our precious dogs be attacked by badly controlled and vicious dogs?

The main trouble is that, both pits and staffs are bred for fighting, they can be the sweetest of dogs, but they can always revert to their breeding.

But what i am really saying is "Go get 'em girl!" bad owners need to be taught their responsibilities too!

#5 Lisa

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 07:51 AM

You need to report this. What if this was a child? Then would she be calling her dogs from the house. She sounds like a flake.

Give Coyo a big hug for me and Hawk and we will be sending good smoke your way.

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#6 Allison

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:38 AM

Thanks you guys. Yes, I sure thought of Skunka's attack, and of course, poor Dave and Wakiza.

I prepared this, this morning, perhaps you've already answered me, but I wonder what you will say when you hear the whole story. Here it is:

We were both shaken and upset, so after we had calmed down, I started to get pretty mad. Then there comes a knock at the door. I storm downstairs, all in a huff, and here is this tiny gal, with a young tiny baby on her hip,.... You know if I say tiny, then she was not big--maybe 5 ft.

Well, she was very apologetic, telling me it won't happen again, if he's hurt they'll pay for the vet bill,..on and on...
I lost a lot of steam, but I told her," This is unacceptable. I've seen them out of the yard, several times, I don't want to fight your dogs, and they could easily kill my dog."
She tells me again, that " it won't happen again..., thanks for not calling the police,...you should have told us..we'll be moving in 4 months."
We exchange names,..and she's so sweet, and her baby is so cute,... I say okay. Thanks for coming over.

So about a half hour later, here comes a young man, up to our porch. I figure it's the husband. He has left work, to come and talk with me. Very sorry, promises it won't happen again,...on and on, we'll be moving in 4 months... " Thanks for not calling the police...." That should have raised a red flag, but I'm pretty trusting. Again, I say thinks for coming over, etc.

Half hour after that, here comes my neighbor, from directly behind, where the dogs came through--first into his yard, then into ours. He's sorry, he couldn't get out there fast enough, he wasn't dressed yet, either, by the time he poked his head out, we were already on our way back to the house. So I tell him about the visits, and he tells me, that when he got home the other night, there was a tag on his door, stating that he has a ticket, for dogs off leash, dogs without a license, and dangerous dogs, with a hefty fine.

Of course, they've got the wrong house.....he doesn't have any dogs. Not only that, he says they promised it would "never happen again" last year, when the dogs were in his yard, had his son cornered, and were advancing on him. Luckily he came out, grabbed a pitch fork, and got them out of the yard. Then he was told "it won't happen again.." , 6 months ago, when they were in his yard menacing him. Then he tells me the guy was yelling at his wife, after he left my place.

I guess I can understand it, but I don't like it much.

Then he tells me the other day, a man from the yard on the other side is yelling, "I can't even let my children out in the yard!"

Then we were talking with our neighbors on this side, she's got a service dog, she's blind, if those pits had attacked Max, what would she do, and not only that, but she couldn't use Max anymore as a service dog--they don't allow dogs to continue, that have been attacked, because they become unreliable.

So I ask you, what is my responsibility? They appear to be apologetic, but they have shown an unwillingness to take responsibility. This, I learn is not an isolated incident, but an ongoing problem and threat.

The surrounding neighbors want me to file a complaint, and I'm thinking, "Hey, let's have a bake sale, raise some money, and help them move."

Thing is, if someone got hurt, between now and then, I'd feel very bad.

The other problem is, I think they are into the three strike rule...I don't know how far, but I would hate to be responsible for having the dogs put down. I see they are very well behaved when the man is home, but they are not well behaved at all, when he is not there.

As you have so rightly pointed out, it's the people that are at fault. How could you have two pit bulls, and not have a fully fenced yard?

I've been working on a letter, and I'll try to find out where they stand on the three strike deal, and if it is possible to register a complaint, without the burden of, well,...having them killed.

They are moving to Brazil.

I'll call the vet--thanks everyone.
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#7 Karen

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 11:59 AM

So I ask you, what is my responsibility? They appear to be apologetic, but they have shown an unwillingness to take responsibility. This, I learn is not an isolated incident, but an ongoing problem and threat.

The surrounding neighbors want me to file a complaint, and I'm thinking, "Hey, let's have a bake sale, raise some money, and help them move."

Thing is, if someone got hurt, between now and then, I'd feel very bad.

The other problem is, I think they are into the three strike rule...I don't know how far, but I would hate to be responsible for having the dogs put down. I see they are very well behaved when the man is home, but they are not well behaved at all, when he is not there.

As you have so rightly pointed out, it's the people that are at fault. How could you have two pit bulls, and not have a fully fenced yard?

I've been working on a letter, and I'll try to find out where they stand on the three strike deal, and if it is possible to register a complaint, without the burden of, well,...having them killed.

They are moving to Brazil.

I'll call the vet--thanks everyone.


Allison,

I think your responsibility, for yourself, your neighbors and everyone's pets and children is to have those dogs removed from those owners. Whether or not this goes to the police is another matter.

Seattle has a very good pit bull rescue program. I'd call them and see what they suggest is the best recourse for you. If the dogs do have to be euthanized it would be a real shame, but your obligation is not to the dogs. Hopefully the rescue is not overwhelmed and can take two more dogs.

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#8 judyk

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 03:19 PM

Thanks you guys. Yes, I sure thought of Skunka's attack, and of course, poor Dave and Wakiza.

I prepared this, this morning, perhaps you've already answered me, but I wonder what you will say when you hear the whole story. Here it is:

We were both shaken and upset, so after we had calmed down, I started to get pretty mad. Then there comes a knock at the door. I storm downstairs, all in a huff, and here is this tiny gal, with a young tiny baby on her hip,.... You know if I say tiny, then she was not big--maybe 5 ft.

Well, she was very apologetic, telling me it won't happen again, if he's hurt they'll pay for the vet bill,..on and on...
I lost a lot of steam, but I told her," This is unacceptable. I've seen them out of the yard, several times, I don't want to fight your dogs, and they could easily kill my dog."
She tells me again, that " it won't happen again..., thanks for not calling the police,...you should have told us..we'll be moving in 4 months."
We exchange names,..and she's so sweet, and her baby is so cute,... I say okay. Thanks for coming over.

So about a half hour later, here comes a young man, up to our porch. I figure it's the husband. He has left work, to come and talk with me. Very sorry, promises it won't happen again,...on and on, we'll be moving in 4 months... " Thanks for not calling the police...." That should have raised a red flag, but I'm pretty trusting. Again, I say thinks for coming over, etc.

Half hour after that, here comes my neighbor, from directly behind, where the dogs came through--first into his yard, then into ours. He's sorry, he couldn't get out there fast enough, he wasn't dressed yet, either, by the time he poked his head out, we were already on our way back to the house. So I tell him about the visits, and he tells me, that when he got home the other night, there was a tag on his door, stating that he has a ticket, for dogs off leash, dogs without a license, and dangerous dogs, with a hefty fine.

Of course, they've got the wrong house.....he doesn't have any dogs. Not only that, he says they promised it would "never happen again" last year, when the dogs were in his yard, had his son cornered, and were advancing on him. Luckily he came out, grabbed a pitch fork, and got them out of the yard. Then he was told "it won't happen again.." , 6 months ago, when they were in his yard menacing him. Then he tells me the guy was yelling at his wife, after he left my place.

I guess I can understand it, but I don't like it much.

Then he tells me the other day, a man from the yard on the other side is yelling, "I can't even let my children out in the yard!"

Then we were talking with our neighbors on this side, she's got a service dog, she's blind, if those pits had attacked Max, what would she do, and not only that, but she couldn't use Max anymore as a service dog--they don't allow dogs to continue, that have been attacked, because they become unreliable.

So I ask you, what is my responsibility? They appear to be apologetic, but they have shown an unwillingness to take responsibility. This, I learn is not an isolated incident, but an ongoing problem and threat.

The surrounding neighbors want me to file a complaint, and I'm thinking, "Hey, let's have a bake sale, raise some money, and help them move."

Thing is, if someone got hurt, between now and then, I'd feel very bad.

The other problem is, I think they are into the three strike rule...I don't know how far, but I would hate to be responsible for having the dogs put down. I see they are very well behaved when the man is home, but they are not well behaved at all, when he is not there.

As you have so rightly pointed out, it's the people that are at fault. How could you have two pit bulls, and not have a fully fenced yard?

I've been working on a letter, and I'll try to find out where they stand on the three strike deal, and if it is possible to register a complaint, without the burden of, well,...having them killed.

They are moving to Brazil.

I'll call the vet--thanks everyone.



Hey, Allison!

Well they need to get a jump start on the move to Brazil -- go now before the rush. While I agree that some animals get a bad rap from the owners some animals can't be helped.

You might want to make a police report -- there has obviously been problems since they were both 'thankful you DIDN'T call the police.' I would think the area you live in probably has a provision within the animal ordinance as to what is mandatory for pitbull owners. I'd call your City Clerk or even animal control officer to determine what the ordinance states.

You are lucky that Coyo wasn't killed or that YOU weren't harmed. When they are that geeked up, their adrenaline is pumping, as was yours, and most of the time can't be stopped, especially since there were two of them fueling each other.

The apologies and idle promises aren't enough. The interesting thought I have is what is going to happen to the dogs when the move to Brazil takes place -- dogs going too???????

Please do something to protect yourself and Coyo. It might be a neighborhood action -- just don't let it go untended.

OK, now I'm getting down off my box!!!

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#9 liz

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 03:29 AM

Oh Allison

We seem to be walking the same path at present.

I had the same thing - apologies, - won't happen again, then I find out it isn't the first dog attack they have done.

I know they would have Shunka again like a shot, that was obvious the other evening, luckily there was a steel gate in between, hate to think I had just walked out of it!

My brother - in -law is threatening to shoot them if it happens again, but he would be the one in trouble then!

I know what is the trouble, we are both too caring for the other dogs, but should we be? perhaps we should put our dogs and ourselves first, we shouldn't carry the guilt that should be their owners.

Perhaps if you make a list of everything they have done, then add what they could do to you and Coyo it may weigh the balance in you own direction.

I know, I can preach!

Could you ask the police for advice to see if your complaint would be the final score, but someone or another dog, you or Coyo even, could come out hurt very badly because of these careless owners.

I agree with Karen, that it is bad owners and careless breeders that are the main problems.

#10 judyk

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 05:09 AM

Oh Allison

We seem to be walking the same path at present.

I had the same thing - apologies, - won't happen again, then I find out it isn't the first dog attack they have done.

I know they would have Shunka again like a shot, that was obvious the other evening, luckily there was a steel gate in between, hate to think I had just walked out of it!

My brother - in -law is threatening to shoot them if it happens again, but he would be the one in trouble then!

I know what is the trouble, we are both too caring for the other dogs, but should we be? perhaps we should put our dogs and ourselves first, we shouldn't carry the guilt that should be their owners.

Perhaps if you make a list of everything they have done, then add what they could do to you and Coyo it may weigh the balance in you own direction.

I know, I can preach!

Could you ask the police for advice to see if your complaint would be the final score, but someone or another dog, you or Coyo even, could come out hurt very badly because of these careless owners.

I agree with Karen, that it is bad owners and careless breeders that are the main problems.



Hey, Allison, it's Judy again!

The female owner must really be wacked considering she's carrying a small child with her to apologize to you. What if those dogs get wound up about something, they're in the house, and the baby is on the floor? Those animals could tear that child apart. Really, the owners have had bad experiences with the dogs based on them both thanking you for NOT calling the police. I agree with Liz and Karen, the dogs have to go before someone is permanently maimed. While none of us want animals taken away for no reason, there are too many incidents that have happened for these dogs to stay. Since the owners don't have enough sense to see the possible danger, you and your neighbors do and have the ability to do something about it!!!
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#11 Allison

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 08:05 AM

Karen--thanks for suggesting Pit Bull Rescue. I forgot all about them. I have worked with them in the past, know the lady in charge, in my area, and we even fostered a pup until it found a home. That is a good suggestion.

Judy--you make me laugh, yeah, that's what I was thinking, "What's the hold up? How can we help facilitate your move?"

Liz, I was so overwhelmed, that I didn't quite read your first post that well. That is your second run in whith those dogs. When they were at your gate, were they off leash again? Hope not.

I think it will be a neighborhood thing. I think that is the way to go. That way, one of us won't get singled out as the "bad guys", and from what I have heard, retaliation would not be out of the question.

I will check with the animal control, before I file a complaint, to see where they stand. But I think I will try to organize a neighborhood gathering, maybe have a police officer there, and/or animal control, and pit bull rescue.

The mom with the baby,....I can certainly see why she wants them outside. Their kennel is muddy, they'd be tracking it in.... but in my opinion, they are obviously the man's dogs, and his responsibility--he should have secured a fence. Now they are only in their kennels, barking constantly. They get pretty excited when Coyo comes out--barking aggressively, and banging into the fence.

They are taking the dogs to Brazil, where I fully expect them to be shot.

Kim sent me a story--a pit bull story, that I'll put up as soon as I get his okay. It's a doozy.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#12 liz

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 02:35 AM

Karen--thanks for suggesting Pit Bull Rescue. I forgot all about them. I have worked with them in the past, know the lady in charge, in my area, and we even fostered a pup until it found a home. That is a good suggestion.

Judy--you make me laugh, yeah, that's what I was thinking, "What's the hold up? How can we help facilitate your move?"

Liz, I was so overwhelmed, that I didn't quite read your first post that well. That is your second run in whith those dogs. When they were at your gate, were they off leash again? Hope not.

I think it will be a neighborhood thing. I think that is the way to go. That way, one of us won't get singled out as the "bad guys", and from what I have heard, retaliation would not be out of the question.

I will check with the animal control, before I file a complaint, to see where they stand. But I think I will try to organize a neighborhood gathering, maybe have a police officer there, and/or animal control, and pit bull rescue.

The mom with the baby,....I can certainly see why she wants them outside. Their kennel is muddy, they'd be tracking it in.... but in my opinion, they are obviously the man's dogs, and his responsibility--he should have secured a fence. Now they are only in their kennels, barking constantly. They get pretty excited when Coyo comes out--barking aggressively, and banging into the fence.

They are taking the dogs to Brazil, where I fully expect them to be shot.

Kim sent me a story--a pit bull story, that I'll put up as soon as I get his okay. It's a doozy.

Yes second meeting, after he had promised not to walk them in my direction again!

I can not take Shunka out now without being afraid of meeting them, I didn't see them coming as there is a high hedge between my friends house and the direction in which they were coming. They were on leads, but I would have walked straight into them!

With my lad then showing signs of this damn lump, I hate to think what may have happened. Of course the trauma of the first attack may have triggered it off in the first place, can't prove that though!

Thank goodness for strong steel gates!

#13 Allison

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 07:24 AM

Can't they at least walk on the other side of the street?
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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#14 Allison

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 10:28 AM

Kim has always said to me that the manner in which Pits have been bred, this fixation with clamping down their jaws and not letting go, is a mistake. That photo he sent, a while ago, that I posted here, and this story from Kim's experience, illustrate his point:

Many of you have probably heard this story from past chat groups, before we had the forum, but for the new owners, here is an experience of my own with Pit Bulls:

When I lived on 15 acres that I was buying in San Jaun Buatista CA (near Santa Cruz) I had some neighbors build a house next door that bred Pit Bulls. As soon as they moved in I went over & told them that if my dogs came over on their property to just chase them home, as they usually respect other's property. I also mentioned I hoped they would keep there Pits home, as my dogs won't tolerate other dogs not respecting their territory. They were kinda' snotty about it & we had a few confrontations & fights with their dogs coming over.

My male dog Billy had been gone for 3 days & I went next door to ask if they had seen him. They said they also had a male missing. I waited a few hours more, then after calling & calling him he came dragging his front broken leg with an attached Pit Bull's head on it. He had chewed the head off at the neck & drug it & his broken leg home.

I had to take off the head, with a pry bar, & delivered it to the neighbor. I told them they better not let their dogs on my property again. They built kennels after that.

Billy's leg finally heeled, but he hated Pit Bulls from then on..


One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

--David Dunning

#15 liz

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:55 PM

Can't they at least walk on the other side of the street?



Doesn't help much, it's a very old and narrow country lane, it was used before cars were invented.

The village has very old roots, back to the bronze age, apparently, Pawlett it's name is derived from something like Pyfleot which meant "village on stilts". the land all around here was originally salt marshes, this was a little island as was Glastonbury.

Edited by liz, 23 February 2008 - 12:58 PM.


#16 liz

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:02 PM

Kim has always said to me that the manner in which Pits have been bred, this fixation with clamping down their jaws and not letting go, is a mistake. That photo he sent, a while ago, that I posted here, and this story from Kim's experience, illustrate his point:



Unfortunately the pit bulls get this tenacity from Staffordshire bull terriers, and the English Bull Terrier. The English bulldog has been so badly bred to 'improve' their looks they have trouble breathing as the nose has been pushed back so far. Another dog ruined by show breeding unfortunately.

#17 Michael and Sonia

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 09:30 AM

Allison,

How is Coyo doing? I hope better. How is he with other dogs now? I hope this bad pit bull experience doesn't scar him and make him scared of other dogs. I've seen that happen before. It's such a shame.

#18 corrine

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:26 AM

Allison,

How is Coyo doing? I hope better. How is he with other dogs now? I hope this bad pit bull experience doesn't scar him and make him scared of other dogs. I've seen that happen before. It's such a shame.


Hi Allison,

Please keep us posted on Coyo... hopefully he is OK. One thing you need to make sure of is that any puncture wounds do not become infected or swell. It can be hard to find a problem given their coats are so thick and they have lots of skin around the neck.

Jake had an incident with a Pit about 2 months ago now... The pit was loose at the dog park and the owner oblivious to the havoc the dog was causing. This pit did not like Jake at all and was gunning for him. Jake even submitted to the dog, but the dog wouldn't quite. The owner could be heard screaming for the dog to return while she was drinking her starbucks coffee and wearing her lovely Dion sunglasses...

Anyway, a fight ensued and the dog had Jake pinned by the neck to the ground and had him in a position which was frighteningly close to breaking the neck so I grabbed the Pit by the back legs and tried to pull him off Jake… Anyway, there wasn't a hope of getting this dog off... it was so unbelievably powerful. Before I knew it, my husband grabbed the pit by the mouth, pulled him off Jake, and pinned the pit to the ground.

I can not express how angry I was... This owner has no business owning this dog... this is where the problem lies. I know you feel bad, but you NEED to report this incident before these dogs harm a child. I did not report this incident, but have regretted it ever since.

We were lucky... We are all left unharmed, but it could have been a very different story if Gary hadn't been there. You have to report this incident (if you haven't done so already)and let the authorities decide based on other reported incidents... Sorry I hate to be so blunt, but my dog was nearly killed...
Corrine

#19 luna6killer

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:24 PM

Unfortunately the pit bulls get this tenacity from Staffordshire bull terriers, and the English Bull Terrier. The English bulldog has been so badly bred to 'improve' their looks they have trouble breathing as the nose has been pushed back so far. Another dog ruined by show breeding unfortunately.


Liz, unfortunately that is so very true - so many good dogs have been ruined by bad breeding, especially breeding for a 'look' rather than a solid well rounded dog!!

Cyndi

#20 Allison

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 08:44 AM

Hi Corrine. Nice to see you. I'm glad you are all okay. Did you read Liz's story? It was closer to yours.

Coyo is okay, but he is mad at those dogs. You should see him run down there, and give them an angry bark!

We've been out of town, but I have been talking with the neighbors. I do appreciate everyone keeping on me about this. It is so easy to get busy and let it go.
One could argue that evolution suggests were not idiots, but I would say, Well, no. Evolution just makes sure were not blithering idiots."

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