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#1 Sherab

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:42 PM

I have been enjoying some different theories about migrations into America - genetics, linguistics, archeology. Thought I'd post some of the interesting stuff.

Remember how Kim said the dogs of the Navajo / pueblo people had the same dogs as the Tahltan? The DNA and language map should give you chills in the you tube video below. I wonder if there are still the forebearer dogs living with the Ket and other ethnic Siberians.

https://www.youtube....h?v=ETm2e4M7T4c

http://www.arcticpho.../rev0010-20.htm

http://travelingyour...rian-groups.jpg

https://www.pinteres...65958171578165/

http://www.archaeolo...-strange-trips/

http://www.bordercol...a/Mongolia.html

http://www.russiandog.net/laikas.html

https://www.flickr.c...urel/9598244291

https://www.pinteres...70567664829566/




#2 Sherab

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 09:10 AM

https://news.illinoi...iew/6367/204444 Interesting choice of picture.

#3 miz molly

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 02:20 PM

Somewhere I read that Siberia, in the old days, hundreds of years ago, perhaps thousands, went as far south as Nepal.... B)


When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir

#4 Chinatola

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 01:37 PM

Fascinating stuff...


Chinatola

Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized.

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#5 NyteByker

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:04 AM

https://news.illinoi...iew/6367/204444 Interesting choice of picture.

I agree!



#6 Sherab

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 04:49 AM

AID dog sized 3 month old ice age puppies found in Siberia Yakutia 12460 years old http://www.scoopwhoo...rved-In-Russia/

#7 NyteByker

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 11:10 AM

This is very interesting.  



#8 Sherab

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 05:50 AM

http://phys.org/news...t-domestic.html

Then there is Alti Dog @33000 years ago - more closely related by DNA to dogs of the americas...http://www.wikiwand....he_domestic_dog

http://news.discover...ught-150521.htm

And our friend Taymyr Wolf...http://www.fravahr.o...p.php?breve1331

What we "know" through modern genetics is still very fluid. There is a project out there to pull together as many samples of modern and ancient dog across the world for comparison lead by a Brit. Hope to hear more in the near future. http://www.sciencema...g-domestication

This to me meshes nicely with the human findings in the Americas and the ice corridor / melt corridor that people had to move around during the ice age and ice age migration. I also like the great Kelp road theory for earlier boat/ shore line migration.

#9 LakeGirl

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:46 AM

Very interesting. As to the question of vegitation in their stomachs/digestive tracts, I'm no expert, but being omniverous would certainly boost survival odds. Kaposia eats pine cones and nibbles the lilac twigs, and has dug up and eaten hollyhock roots. (We have carefully researched what's growing in our yard to make sure none of it is harmful.) Hollyhocks are medicinal...the entire plant...roots, leaves, stalks, flowers and seeds, and according to the ASPCA poisonous plant website, completely harmless to dogs and other animals. The main benefit of hollyhocks is to the digestive system. I'd be willing to bet the ancient domestic canids were omnivores.
"A life ain't much of a life without a dog in it, s'what I always said."
Dan Gemeinhart, The Honest Truth

#10 NyteByker

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:57 AM

When I have a moment, I will read the links to your latest posts, Sherab.  Also, I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but I feel that our dogs would somehow share DNA with The Dingo, The Canaan Dog (aka Jerusalem Dog) and even the Kelpie (which is believed to have come from the Dingo).  After doing just a quick Google Image search, the appearances are very similar.  I wonder if the Dingo or Canaan dog are the ones to have crossed the Bering Strait.  

 

Sidenote: Ranger Komi is actually friends with a beautiful Canaan dog (Neve) .. they are about the same size, have the same antics, and are so similar to each other (only Neve is much lighter in color).

 

This is fascinating stuff, Sherab.  Thank you for sharing all of this with us.  

Attached File  DingoCanaanKelpieAIDog.JPG   92.48K   7 downloads 



#11 Sherab

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 10:00 AM

Just a few years ago it was all - dogs came from wolves based on DNA - end of story- and now it's oops wolves and dogs are sister groups from a common but extinct root because we have more throrough genome mapping and more data (the ancestor called an "ancient wolf" but why if both dog and modern wolf came from that root?). I like the graph in the Wiki article starting with an unknown ancestor to all (coyote, dog, wolf, jackal). I don't know if we'll ever really know where and how dogs came about because of the inherent issues with data quality (ancient DNA soup mixed with bugs, bacteria, fungus DNA), analytical error, incomplete historical record, small sample sizes or waiting to find the "missing link", plus inter breeding and mixing that confounds data that has been accelerated in our modern world but I do find the whole topic of can we figure out what happened very interesting. We can see what the current theories are, and try to understand the limitations, biases and blind spots based on current data and rest assured that the picture will change - perhaps a lot (such as...oh look a 100,000 year old bone - oops - sort like when they found modern humans earlier than expected in Asia) or perhaps this version is closer to what happened and next iterations will bring sharper focus and more detail. Weirdest thing in the article was the gene flow found between the Mexican Wolf and the African basenji - when and how - that must be an interesting story. There's a great PBS series on humans and in it they are finding that people - modern ones - mated successfully with other ancient hominids - and it gave evolutionary jumps that were useful to our survival. We loved our Neanderthals, and others at different times and far off places. Just like dogs seems we had a common root and we also outcrossed more than once in different places and times.

#12 Denise E.

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:17 AM

I still wonder if people didn't cross the land bridge from North America to Siberia also!



#13 Denise E.

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 08:54 AM

https://news.illinoi...iew/6367/204444 Interesting choice of picture.

 

1.  I wonder how Kim's dogs would help the researchers to further understand single or multiple points of domestication

 

2.  It seems from this article that even dogs have a missing link like people do - in archeology studies!

 

3.  Most of us can confirm our dogs eat grass and twigs a lot!

 

I also liked the question that was asked at the end of the first link - long lecture; and that the lecturer agreed there should be more discovery and focus on the dogs history.



#14 Denise E.

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 09:08 AM

All they had to do was ask Kim and he'd let them know there was an acient not modern ancestor our dogs come from.  (that is paraphrasing a lot - but gets the point).

 

Of course science is always catching up with the original native knowledge.

 

Glad it is coming about!



#15 miz molly

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 06:48 AM

Like so much information, it takes scientific proof to make what we have known as truth to become FACT.  Go figure.  Sometimes science lags behind what I would call "elder knowledge."

 

Thanks for sharing this Sherab.....more to ponder.  :)


When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. ~John Muir




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