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Draco & Wicca's Adventures


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Mostly pictures....

 

 

 

Joan worked with Wicca for the first time on our little balance beam....

Wicca_Beam_Joan_2.jpg

 

 

The next day, Wicca did it herself....

Wicca_Beam_3.jpg

 

 

As has been mentioned -- they do love to climb!!

Climbing.jpg

 

 

After a rowdy play period, they are resting but alert...

Alert_and_Resting.JPG

 

 

Not a great picture, but Wicca lay stretched out like this for a long time...

Stretched_Out.jpg

 

 

A nice picture of them looking at me....

Wicca___Draco.jpg

 

Woodrat, you posted a picture of Tamarack that looks almost exactly like this pose....

Wicca_Sleeping_on_Dad__s_Foot.jpg

 

 

I also just put up a couple of videos on the Facebook AI Dog page.... https://www.facebook.com/americanindiandog#...ericanindiandog

 

 

Dogs are ready for a walk. Gotta go...

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OK, friends and family, I have to make a confession.....   We have been far, far too busy. How busy, you may well ask.   Glad you asked. We've been so busy, that for the first time ever, I cam

Haven't purchased the Chinese herbs, yet.   We've a vet appointment coming up and will ask then. If we get no direct assistance from our vet then I'll go direct.   There's nothing immediate pushi

I did a quick search but didn't find any references I may have made back over the last few years to a family we've met several times in Edmonds while walking Draco & Wicca.   Started back a whi

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I love that one of Wicca lying down - it looks like she's in the middle of bounding across a field in play, except that she's on her side! She has very interesting coloration, I love the tan inside her ears. So pretty.. and Draco is stunning as per usual. Couldn't help but laugh at the chair pic..

 

The shoe one is priceless, and of course, so familiar.

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Thanks, Gib, for posting the Facebook link. I didn't know there was an Amer Indian Dog Facebook page and I found quite a few helpful videos on it. I'm still struggling with the good play thing...trying to identify caution signs for calling time outs.

 

What was Wicca's birthday? My Namequa was born on June 7th and she looks so much like Wicca it is amazing...except Wicca looks a bit older in the photos. Nami is still only 13-1/2 lbs.

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Thanks, Gib, for posting the Facebook link. I didn't know there was an Amer Indian Dog Facebook page and I found quite a few helpful videos on it. I'm still struggling with the good play thing...trying to identify caution signs for calling time outs.

 

What was Wicca's birthday? My Namequa was born on June 7th and she looks so much like Wicca it is amazing...except Wicca looks a bit older in the photos. Nami is still only 13-1/2 lbs.

 

 

Wicca was born April 22nd of Niki x Jay Silverheels. She's 4 1/2 months and just over 25 pounds.

 

 

When I searched, there were actually two AI Dog pages on Facebook. The one I posted to is, I think, the "official" one. (Is there an official AI Dog Facebook page, anyone?)

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So much fun!

Jasper and I had a blast watching the videos-

Thanks for sharing ;)

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  • 5 weeks later...

Today is Wicca's spay surgery. I've been reading everything I can on the web about post-operative care and we are ready. (Right!)

 

I did a long session searching for post-operative care for our female AI Dogs and found a couple of things. 10-14 days of limited activity and wearing the cone is what almost everyone says. How does that convert to AI Dog time?

 

I work (sort of) from home. Joan's office is a couple of miles away. This morning we stood and hugged for a long time -- we don't like putting our baby under the knife.

 

We know it's such a common surgery and Wicca will be fine it's just that our empathy and compassion dials are turned up right now to Super-Maximum.

 

So, I'm just simply asking for a little input and encouragement!

 

Thanks, everyone, in advance, for all your loving and healing thoughts and wishes. And any words of wisdom or insight.

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Today is Wicca's spay surgery. I've been reading everything I can on the web about post-operative care and we are ready. (Right!)

 

I did a long session searching for post-operative care for our female AI Dogs and found a couple of things. 10-14 days of limited activity and wearing the cone is what almost everyone says. How does that convert to AI Dog time?

 

I work (sort of) from home. Joan's office is a couple of miles away. This morning we stood and hugged for a long time -- we don't like putting our baby under the knife.

 

We know it's such a common surgery and Wicca will be fine it's just that our empathy and compassion dials are turned up right now to Super-Maximum.

 

So, I'm just simply asking for a little input and encouragement!

 

Thanks, everyone, in advance, for all your loving and healing thoughts and wishes. And any words of wisdom or insight.

 

Gib

I am right there with you and Joan....having Chhaya spayed and away from the house overnight was the worst thing....but she came back fine and was VERY happy to be home...the hardest thing was keeping her from running after she started feeling better....the leash was the only thing I could do....inside the house and outside....she was attached to me constantly....lots of chew toys and bones helped the frustration. Finally after, if I remember correctly the 7th day, I left her out without being on the leash and told her to be easy.....well that lasted about 1 second and she was off and running full tilt around the yard....I was so scared she would tear something....I think it was starting to hurt and she slowed down and I got her settled....after that initial burst I think she understood why I was trying to keep her settled....I still leashed her when we first went out then unhooked her after we got outside....she was better after that. That was the hardest thing for her since she LOVES and I mean LOVES to run.....good luck and I will be thinking of you all! Keep us posted!!!

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And LOTS of puzzle toys with kibble in them. (I resorted to that when JJ was recovering from his Neuter, helped him work out a little energy, and took up some time for him.)

 

And even a regular old leg-bone with all the marrow already chewed/licked out can be useful. Just smear some peanutbutter in the inside, and she will work her little tongue forever trying to get the memory of all the flavor out! LOL

 

And it is a great time to work on a whole list of obedience and fun trick training skills.

And check out this woman's youtube channel!!! Awesomeness!

 

KIKOPUP

I know I've linked her before, but she is an awesome inspiration for training and methodology.

 

Have fun, and the whole Sheldrake Pack sends their best recovery wishes!!! :D

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Don't give in. Be sure her scar is healed, and won't tear. After a good few days, when you feel comfortable, at least keep her in the cone while resting where she could lick and tear the sutures. REALLY better safe than sorry.

 

I am extra cautious because I have seen the worst, where a female tears open her sutures, and pulls out her guts. Had to be put down. I still get upset to think about it, and that was several years ago. Don't ever want to see it happen again.

 

Remember, that after they look like they are healing, those sutures start to itch. That is the time to put the cone back on while resting. I think running, under supervision, would be fine, but it is while resting that they start to get curious.

 

If you keep that area clean, I believe it may help to reduce the itching.

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Today is Wicca's spay surgery.
I found that a couple of days after surgery, when their energy starts to come back, I would play with Tolinka very quietly. I did this a lot during the day, and it served two purposes. One, he learned what I call "soft play" which we still do to this day. An example: I took a toy, gave it to him and gently played a game of give and take game. NOT a tug of war, NOT fetch, just very quiet, like "put it in my hand" then give it back to him. It's a great time for her to learn other quiet teachings of different "tricks" etc. The other thing I learned is that the constant attention took the edge off his energy. The mental energy that he spent figuring things out definitely helped to ease the desire to run and play. Good luck to Wicca and the your family. All will be well. Miz M and Tolinka send their best and a a fast recovery.
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'morning everyone,

 

So, last Thursday, we had Wicca spayed (which went well and from which she is mostly recovered) and while under anesthetic she had a different, somehow more specific set of x-rays taken of her long sore front shoulders. The recent, first set of x-rays were, we were told, good but inconclusive.

 

Now, we've been through the gauntlet of veterinarians and now have had 4 vets confirm that Wicca has a puppy disease called OCD. It is typically a disease in 4-8 month old large, fast growing breeds, but as we now know, it can affect smaller, Wicca sized dogs as well.

 

We were hoping for a diagnosis of Pano (a puppy growing pains disease they grow out of), but it is OCD. In either case it means essentially the same thing: 6-8 weeks of near-inactivity for Wicca.

 

Wicca will be 6 months old tomorrow. We now have to take her as soon as possible for arthroscopic surgery on both of her shoulders.

 

Where? That we are not quite sure of yet. For some reason it's about twice as expensive in Seattle as it is in other areas of the country. It requires a board certified specialist, etc.

 

We received an excellent referral from our Southern California friends, Sid (a vet himself) and Paula, to a great vet in Seattle. We had her read the x-rays and she confirmed the diagnosis of OCD (OsteoChondritis Dissecans). There is no scientific agreement as to the source/origin of the disease. It might be genetic. It might be nutritional. A few references said perhaps environmental.

 

This vet recommended surgery as soon as we could arrange it. She also confirmed that she firmly recommends arthroscopy as the vastly preferred method of surgery. She herself doesn't do arthroscopy so recommended a vet who does.

 

We saw the surgeon-vet yesterday (Thursday). He is a young guy and has done numerous of these surgeries. He confirmed the OCD diagnosis and said we should consider getting the surgery done as soon as possible.

 

From one typical webpage:

 

Postop care

∙During the first 6 to 8 weeks after surgery, activity is restricted to short leash walks outside. Running, jumping, or rough play is forbidden. Gradually increasing the activity, following the eighth week after surgery, allows for a safe return of function of the operated limb.

 

The vet yesterday said if the above regimen is followed, prognosis calls for virtually 100% recovery. There is some slight tendency for arthritis in the later stages of life, but only very slight in comparison to normally healthy and active dogs. And, because it's in the shoulders, Wicca, even if she develops arthritis in her shoulders, will likely be asymptomatic.

 

Now all we have to do is get through the 6-8 week recovery.

 

Joan and I are going just a little pre-crazy just thinking about how we keep Wicca down for 6-8 weeks. How do we keep her and Draco from their normal runs and wrestlings?

 

The doctor today said that after the initial two weeks, she can't really "hurt" anything but she could retard her recovery. That's why 6-8 weeks of restricted activity is the goal – to fully optimize recovery.

 

So, stay tuned. We'll let you know the who's what's and when's as we know them.

 

(This Forum is going to have to act as our OCD support group?!!? ) :lol:

 

(I foresee lots of leash training and puzzle games in Wicca's future!)

 

Please ask questions if you have them. And please, please, if you have answers let us know right away!!

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Have you checked out U.C. Davis here in California for any information? They are a wonderful source of information, and treatment for for problematic medical situations in the 4 legged world.

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Oh poor Wicca! A relief at least that it's a condition that can be 'fixed'. Let us know how she does with the surgery and best of luck keeping her calm for those 6-8 wks (yikes!).. :lol:

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All our best wishes and warm tail-wagging thoughts to Wicca the wonder puppy.

 

You will have Lots of opportunity to work on your shaping training.. :lol:

 

Keep us posted on her progress

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Joan and I are going just a little pre-crazy just thinking about how we keep Wicca down for 6-8 weeks. How do we keep her and Draco from their normal runs and wrestlings?

 

I have a story for you. I mentioned this in a past post. My son brought his lab to our house after surgery, and Tolinka knew immediately that something was wrong with his buddy Finn. On his instinctive own, Tolinka reacted by being very quiet around Finn, bringing toys to chew on together, lying quietly beside him, playing a game of "give and take away" while lying next to each other. We were all amazed. I bet you find that Draco will do the same. It's was beautiful sight to see the dogs have this understanding and knowing the others needs and capabilities at the moment. "The moment" is the important part to keep your eye on. They let each other know when things begin to get better, and become a bit more active with each other as time progresses. Tolinka would try, in the babiest of steps, to egg Finn on for more active play. If it didn't work, they would resume the "quiet play." Testing, testing, testing. :lol:

 

When is the surgery? Tolinka and I send speedy recovery wishes to Wicca, patience to Draco, and wisdom to you and Joan.

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I am so sorry to hear about Wicca's ailment but so happy to know there is a solution. You description of the recovery certainly put my worrying about Denakka's neutering recovery in perspective! Just as I was wondering how I'd keep him quiet, I read you post. My heart goes out to little Wicca, AND to you and Joan. I expect these things are much easier for our 4-legged friends who are so good at living in the moment! Denakka and I send our love and good thought across the country right to you and Joan and Wicca. Good luck with everything--we'll be watching for updates!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Greetings, All.

 

I've had little time recently but have just finished catching up on all the posts. Wow!!

 

Tamarack, Danza, Denakka, Willow, everyone & everydog.... Blessings to you all. Be well. Be safe. Thank you for the inspiration and support.

 

Did I cover everybody?

 

We've had our own drama going on -- here's a summary....

 

~~~~

 

Four vets looked at two sets of x-rays and did physical examinations on Wicca.

 

All agreed, that Wicca has OCD.

 

All agreed, that if it is OCD, then she should be operated on as soon as possible.

 

Kim and his vet say that no AI Dog has ever been diagnosed with OCD. There have been dogs that showed puppy lameness but all have outgrown it.

 

Wicca was spay on October 14th. We kept her extremely quiet for 2-3 days and kept her low-key for a few more days. Since then she's been pretty normal. Including a couple of Sunday's when she not only survived two vigorous play dates but expressed none of her former symptoms.

 

Kim and his vet suggest waiting until absolutely necessary. That being said, Kim agreed that if it is truly OCD, then we have no choice but to operate.

 

We seem to agree that we really trust and can talk with a Vet we met, Dr. Tamara Walker. She confirms that if we have a positive diagnosis of OCD, then the sooner we operate the better.

 

But, she also said that for any good surgeon the overriding principle is that you don't operate if there are no symptoms. If Wicca isn't showing symptoms; then we don't operate. If symptoms re-occur; we re-evaluate and operate as necessary. And she guaranteed that the symptoms would return.

 

So, we began thinking that we may be able to escape without surgery, then......

 

Then, we got word back from Sid. He and his radiologist also concur it is OCD and the sooner the surgery the better. I may have left one out but we are up to 7 Vets now have confirmed the diagnosis.

 

Then, last Sunday, our neighbor's boxer, Ari, is over for a play date and Wicca is doing great running and wrestling with the two bigger dogs. Suddenly, she lets out a painful sounding yelp, takes maybe two steps, and simply lays down. It was definitely her left shoulder and she was laying on her left side. As I knelt down beside her I could see that her left foot was shaking and her toes were quivering. And she lay perfectly still, not quite groaning and not quite whining.

 

She had the saddest, pained look in her eye. She didn't want picked up, so I comforted her best I could while she lay there.

 

Within 15 minutes, she was back up and running around. That's one of the weird "symptoms" of the disease.

 

 

But, now we know she has to have bi-lateral OCD arthroscopic surgery on both shoulders and she goes in on Monday morning. The strictly inhibited recuperation is 6-8 weeks; the first two weeks are critical for her successful recuperation. Nothing more than potty-walks for two weeks.

 

We'll post surgery results Tuesday when we get her back....

 

~~~~

 

Here's a picture of Draco & Wicca I took yesterday in Edmonds.

 

Draco___Wicca_in_Edmonds.jpg

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Oh Gib. We'll be thinking of you. Can't think of anything more sad than your dog in pain. Glad you thought about Kim's vet, and his thoughts, but as he said, he's not there, and can only guess.

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Oh Gib. We'll be thinking of you. Can't think of anything more sad than your dog in pain. Glad you thought about Kim's vet, and his thoughts, but as he said, he's not there, and can only guess.

 

 

 

 

Kim has been very helpful. Even a little brave. :)

 

We had given him a summary but few details and he questioned us, to make sure we weren't jumping in to surgery too quickly. New puppy owners can be a bit too "motherly". (Guilty as charged.)

 

But, after filling Kim in on all the details of nearly two months of working with this he said he understands. He and his vet said it is the first case they know of in the AI Dogs. There have been other "growing pains" dis-eases; but all have grown out of it.

 

They also said, that the point we are at, having confirmed now with 7 count 'em seven Vets, that we should do it.

 

Wicca is getting so good at catching the Frisbee; after Monday it'll be weeks before she gets to even try it again!! :)

 

~~~~

 

I/we are gathering links to ideas of what all we can do with Wicca while she is convalescing! I haven't found any definitive resource book or website yet but am still looking. Star reminded me of the training videos she's pointed out before and they have already made a difference in our leash walking.

 

Let us know any thoughts you may have when you have any time free from the joy and drama of your own lives and AI Dogs!

 

Be well everyone. We'll check in later.

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I have a story for you. I mentioned this in a past post. My son brought his lab to our house after surgery, and Tolinka knew immediately that something was wrong with his buddy Finn. On his instinctive own, Tolinka reacted by being very quiet around Finn, bringing toys to chew on together, lying quietly beside him, playing a game of "give and take away" while lying next to each other. We were all amazed. I bet you find that Draco will do the same. It's was beautiful sight to see the dogs have this understanding and knowing the others needs and capabilities at the moment. "The moment" is the important part to keep your eye on. They let each other know when things begin to get better, and become a bit more active with each other as time progresses. Tolinka would try, in the babiest of steps, to egg Finn on for more active play. If it didn't work, they would resume the "quiet play." Testing, testing, testing. :)

 

When is the surgery? Tolinka and I send speedy recovery wishes to Wicca, patience to Draco, and wisdom to you and Joan.

 

So sorry to hear about Wicca's shoulder problem...as if the spaying wasn't worry enough. But we had an experience similar to miz molly's last weekend. Normally, Namequa is unstoppable outdoors. She plays hard and pesters MooShoo endlessly for more play. When Moosh slipped and started limping last weekend, my first thought was how do I keep Nami from making things worse. But as if by magic, she just knew something was wrong and immediately slowed down, came calmly into the house, and let me pack him up for the vet's without once pushing or nipping at him. Her behavior kept up for as long as he felt bad, and when he was ready, she immediately went back to her old little sister behavior. Dogs are wonderfully empathetic creatures and far braver than most people I know. Wicca will come through it all and Draco will be a big help to you all as she does.

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So sorry to hear about Wicca's shoulder problem...Wicca will come through it all and Draco will be a big help to you all as she does.

 

Thank you.

 

Yes, we've had experience already with these two helping each other: Draco's leg-bite ordeal and Wicca's spaying. They do empathy amazingly well.

 

Like a mantra, over and over again. "Wicca is blessed."

 

~~~~

 

Seems like there is a dynamic balance on the list. First one sub-group of people need support and another group has the support to offer. Then, it changes, those who once needed support now have experience with which to offer support.

 

Ah, experience.

 

One of my favorite authors, Aldous Huxley wrote, "Experience is not what happens to people; it is what people do with what happens to them."

 

Thanks, everyone.

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Thanks for keeping us updated, Gib. I had been wondering how you guys were doing.

 

I can definitely understand the uncertainty of all parties as to whether or not to go ahead with surgery, but with 7 vets behind the decision I think it's pretty safe to say you've made the correct one.

 

When you first posted about her diagnoses I chatted with my employer about the disease as we'd been having a continuing conversation about over-exercising puppies and what might be 'too much' (I was concerned because I've seen T pull up to a halt with a whine and a brief limp every once in a while), and she said that one of her first dogs had OCD in both shoulders as a young thing. She assured me it was an easy fix and nothing to be too concerned about because the surgery itself is pretty easy and very successful. Her dog never had any issues afterwards for the rest of his life. Granted of course that requiring surgery is never an ideal situation, but at least the prognosis is good.

 

It is certainly a good opportunity at least to do some fine tuning with training. Maybe you could find some creative 'tricks' to train her? I've seen lots of dogs trained to do things like pick up cans and put them in the trash and other similar tasks; just little things that don't mean a whole lot to a dog, but give the brain a little extra work! (

- here's a cute video with some ideas :))

 

Another thought might be giving her some puzzle toys to play with. I've always thought the ones made by this woman: http://www.nina-ottosson.com/ were extremely interesting, but they are just so expensive. You might be able to get some ideas from some of the simpler ones and perhaps figure out how to make something similar at home if you're the kind of person (or know anyone who is) that likes to make things.

Ex:

- tennis balls hiding treats in muffin pans! Simple, but gives even just five minutes of brain work.

- this is one I've always wanted to teach Cairo, but never got around to it. How can a dog go wrong with nosework!

 

Draco's got his work cut out for him now, but I'm sure he'll do wonderfully at keeping her company (gently) while she recuperates. Please let us know how the surgery goes, I'll be thinking of you all.

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Gib, I am so sorry about Wicca, but she is a strong pup. She'll be fine so long as she has you, Joan, and Draco. Lots of good thoughts coming your way.

 

Blessed be.

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